View Poll Results: Should the school have banned the reading of the prayer by the student?

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    30 27.27%
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    75 68.18%
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Thread: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

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    Re: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

    White went on to say educators do not infringe on First Amendment rights when exercising control over student speech in school-sponsored activities "so long as their actions are reasonably related to legitimate pedagogical concerns."
    Hazelwood v. Kuhlmeier - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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    Re: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    People having an issue with it, but not claiming its "unconstitutional".

    I think there's a big difference between "It's going to offend the crowd, don't do it" and claiming "That's unconstutional! You can't do it".
    The crowd cheered, though.

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    Re: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    The most interesting thing, to me, is that it was the student's defiance that makes it permissible. The school is not allowed to endorse prayer. They have to say no. But the student is free to disregard that and say whatever he wants. He can be as religious as he likes. The school cannot be. I wouldn't support punishing him at all, because it is his right to speak on religious matters if he likes. I think it is callous of him to do so, since he is speaking to a class that is graduating from high school, and not in a church. Not all of his classmates share his religion and by praying he is only speaking to the part of his class that does. But free speech allows a person to demonstrate the shallowness of their character. He did so. It's his right to do so. The school cannot endorse the positions he was espousing, however.

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    Re: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

    Quote Originally Posted by Geoist View Post
    Clownboy, you said you are a teacher. Have you never disciplined a child over offensive speech?
    I was a teacher and yes. Apples and oranges. The power there rests in a whole 'nother SCOTUS decision. See Hazelwood above.

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    Re: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    Well, don't you think he would be interfering with that child's free speech? Children should be able to say whatever they want, whenever they want with no repercussions.
    Once again, different venue, different SCOTUS decision altogether. See Hazelwood above.

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    Re: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    The most interesting thing, to me, is that it was the student's defiance that makes it permissible. The school is not allowed to endorse prayer. They have to say no. But the student is free to disregard that and say whatever he wants. He can be as religious as he likes. The school cannot be. I wouldn't support punishing him at all, because it is his right to speak on religious matters if he likes. I think it is callous of him to do so, since he is speaking to a class that is graduating from high school, and not in a church. Not all of his classmates share his religion and by praying he is only speaking to the part of his class that does. But free speech allows a person to demonstrate the shallowness of their character. He did so. It's his right to do so. The school cannot endorse the positions he was espousing, however.
    What he doesn't have the "right" to do is to change his speech at the last minute without getting approval, especially when inserting religious content.

    Hmm. It's interesting. You would think a boy with such intelligence would be able to figure these things out for himself.

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    Re: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    The crowd cheered, though.
    Good grief! That is SO irrelevant.

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    Re: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    What he doesn't have the "right" to do is to change his speech at the last minute without getting approval, especially when inserting religious content.

    Hmm. It's interesting. You would think a boy with such intelligence would be able to figure these things out for himself.
    He absolutely had the right to change his speech because the school had no right to forbid religious expression. The SCOTUS is on his side.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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    Re: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    He absolutely had the right to change his speech because the school had no right to forbid religious expression. The SCOTUS is on his side.
    Nope, you're just as wrong as wrong can be.

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    Re: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    Nope, you're just as wrong as wrong can be.
    And why would you believe that?
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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