View Poll Results: Should the school have banned the reading of the prayer by the student?

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Thread: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

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    Re: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    If it is a school sponsored event, the school has the authority to censor speeches and other things that THEY feel may be offensive.

    Jackpot!

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    Read it and weep buddy!
    Unfortunately you cherry picked the wrong part of the decision. The quoted portion ONLY applies to when the school has a hand in the speech. Otherwise, it's the STUDENT's view that is expressed, and that is protected.

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    Re: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

    Oh Oops! I missed that link. My mistake.

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    Re: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

    Quote Originally Posted by Geoist View Post
    The point of posting the Hazelwood case was to demonstrate that the school had the right to review and not accept the boy's speech if they chose. I am not making an argument over religion here.
    Which then comports with Lee making it the student's protected speech and not the school's barred speech.

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    Re: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    Please post a link to this. Now this is my second request.
    My goodness Chris, the link has been posted now three times and is indeed included in the post above. Use your eyes.

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    Re: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

    Quote Originally Posted by ChezC3 View Post
    Saying a prayer doesn't meet those qualifications.
    Essentially the prayer has nothing to do with the real issue: and that is do school administrator's have the authority to review and even censor parts of a speech? I say they do in this case because the child was in a position of privilege. If he was in a classroom or in the hallways then that is another matter. Even then, students and faculty don't have complete freedom of speech as they can be disciplined for cursing and other forms of offensive language.
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    Re: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    Which then comports with Lee making it the student's protected speech and not the school's barred speech.
    Did you even read the case? It states that the school has the authority to censor student speech.
    "Men did not make the earth ... it is the value of the improvement only, and not the earth itself, that is individual property... Every proprietor owes to the community a ground rent for the land which he holds." -- Thomas Paine, Agrarian Justice
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    Re: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

    The most interesting thing, to me, is that it was the student's defiance that makes it permissible. The school is not allowed to endorse prayer. They have to say no. But the student is free to disregard that and say whatever he wants. He can be as religious as he likes. The school cannot be. I wouldn't support punishing him at all, because it is his right to speak on religious matters if he likes. I think it is callous of him to do so, since he is speaking to a class that is graduating from high school, and not in a church. Not all of his classmates share his religion and by praying he is only speaking to the part of his class that does. But free speech allows a person to demonstrate the shallowness of their character. He did so. It's his right to do so. The school cannot endorse the positions he was espousing, however.
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    Re: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    My goodness Chris, the link has been posted now three times and is indeed included in the post above. Use your eyes.
    Clownboy, you said you are a teacher. Have you never disciplined a child over offensive speech?
    "Men did not make the earth ... it is the value of the improvement only, and not the earth itself, that is individual property... Every proprietor owes to the community a ground rent for the land which he holds." -- Thomas Paine, Agrarian Justice
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    Re: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    Unfortunately you cherry picked the wrong part of the decision. The quoted portion ONLY applies to when the school has a hand in the speech. Otherwise, it's the STUDENT's view that is expressed, and that is protected.
    Here is the conclusion, from your link:

    Conclusion

    The Supreme Court’s decisions have left open several issues regarding religious expression at graduation events that lower courts have addressed in a variety of ways. Principals and school boards will look to lower court opinions in their jurisdictions (if any) that deal with these issues for guidance. Thus, specific restrictions on free speech may vary between jurisdictions. At the most basic level, however, schools may not restrict students’ speech based on the students’ religious viewpoint. Under current law in some jurisdictions, schools may prohibit a valedictorian from using sectarian or proselytizing language during a graduation speech.
    The Lord's Prayer would fall under proselytizing language I would think.

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    Re: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

    Quote Originally Posted by Geoist View Post
    Clownboy, you said you are a teacher. Have you never disciplined a child over offensive speech?
    Well, don't you think he would be interfering with that child's free speech? Children should be able to say whatever they want, whenever they want with no repercussions.

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