View Poll Results: Should the school have banned the reading of the prayer by the student?

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Thread: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

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    Re: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

    Quote Originally Posted by ChezC3 View Post
    What's even further still

    The question before us is whether including clerical members who offer prayers as part of the official school graduation ceremony is consistent with the Religion Clauses of the First Amendment, provisions the Fourteenth Amendment makes applicable with full force to the States and their school districts

    The case you provide has absolutely nothing to do with the issue at hand.

    Who wrong? YOU wrong.
    Are you kidding? You MUST be kidding. This case law SPECIFICALLY deals with prayer during a graduation ceremony. ANY prayer by ANY guest, student or school employee.

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    Re: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    so you have no links or proof to back this up? LMAO classic
    DO NOT expect David Taylor to be specific. Do not expect him to provide sources for any of his wild assed proclamations. He is the kind of poster who will not. Nothing he says has any validity. He is has proven to be a man who lies to promote or should we say pimp his faith.










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    I'm kind of a big deal

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    Re: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

    Quote Originally Posted by Risky Thicket View Post
    DO NOT expect David Taylor to be specific. Do not expect him to provide sources for any of his wild assed proclamations. He is the kind of poster who will not. Nothing he says has any validity. He is has proven to be a man who lies to promote or should we say pimp his faith.
    Dont worry i dont lol
    he has proven what you said to be true many many times. no respected posters take him seriously. Not only because of his lies but also because he believe man waled with dinosaurs and that the earth is only 10K years old.
    This space is currently owned by The Great Winchester, stay tuned for future messages!
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    Re: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

    Quote Originally Posted by Carleen View Post
    A speech that is given to a variety of religious views should not single out one view. The prayer should have been omitted.
    That is censoring speech based on what you find desirable and acceptable. Either do not let him speak at all, or let him speak freely. It is his valedictorian speech. I do not think the class room standard for disruption would be applicable here.

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    Re: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

    Quote Originally Posted by davidtaylorjr View Post
    Liberty High valedictorian's speech causes stir - FOX Carolina 21

    Do you think the school was right to ban this in the first place? Why or why not?
    I do. Not having prayer for a function at public schools is in keeping with the Establishment Clause.
    Also, we need to legalize recreational drugs and prostitution.

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    Re: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    People having an issue with it, but not claiming its "unconstitutional".

    I think there's a big difference between "It's going to offend the crowd, don't do it" and claiming "That's unconstutional! You can't do it".
    I don't know about others but I never said what the boy did was unconstitutional. I said his speech was not protected by the Constitution.

    Take a look at this case if you don't believe me: Hazelwood v. Kuhlmeier - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    "Men did not make the earth ... it is the value of the improvement only, and not the earth itself, that is individual property... Every proprietor owes to the community a ground rent for the land which he holds." -- Thomas Paine, Agrarian Justice
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    Re: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

    Quote Originally Posted by Geoist View Post
    I don't know about others but I never said what the boy did was unconstitutional. I said his speech was not protected by the Constitution.

    Take a look at this case if you don't believe me: Hazelwood v. Kuhlmeier - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Wrong case, not on-point. Lee v. Weisman addresses this specific point. And to post it again for those who missed it:

    Are valedictorians and salutatorians permitted to make religious remarks as a part of their speeches?

    Yes, although such remarks must be “non-proselytizing” and “non-sectarian” in some jurisdictions.
    When a school selects a student to speak at graduation through neutral, even-handed criteria (e.g., valedictorians or salutatorians selected to speak due to their grade point averages), and the student is given primary control of the content of the speech, such expression should not be limited due to its religious content. One Guideline issued by the U.S. Department of Education in 2003 that directly deals with this issue is entitled “Prayer at Graduation.”

    School officials may not mandate or organize prayer at graduation or select speakers for such events in a manner that favors religious speech such as prayer. Where students or other private graduation speakers are selected on the basis of genuinely neutral, evenhanded criteria and retain primary control over the content of their expression, however, that expression is not attributable to the school and therefore may not be restricted because of its religious (or anti-religious) content. To avoid any mistaken perception that a school endorses student or other private speech that is not in fact attributable to the school, school officials may make appropriate, neutral disclaimers to clarify that such speech (whether religious or nonreligious) is the speaker’s and not the school’s.

    Id. (emphasis added). Thus, valedictorians and salutatorians should be able to include religious content in their speeches, at least where they “retain primary control over the content of their expression,” because they are selected on the basis of neutral criteria.

    The key question regarding speeches provided by valedictorians and salutatorians at graduations is whether such expression would be viewed as bearing the approval of the school and, if so, whether regulations of such expression are required to be viewpoint neutral.1 In the absence of a controlling opinion on these issues in a particular jurisdiction, graduation speeches by valedictorians and salutatorians should be reasonably understood as the student’s own expression rather than speech controlled or sponsored by the school. A reasonable person in attendance at a graduation ceremony understands that valedictorians and salutatorians are selected due to academic criteria and their remarks typically reflect their own views. Valedictorians and salutatorians should be able to share how their faith has impacted their lives without fear of censorship by school officials.

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    Re: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    This is a moderated site. You realize what that means correct?
    That's right. And anytime our posts are deleted or if we are banned/suspended for anything offensive our 1st Amendment rights are being violated!
    "Men did not make the earth ... it is the value of the improvement only, and not the earth itself, that is individual property... Every proprietor owes to the community a ground rent for the land which he holds." -- Thomas Paine, Agrarian Justice
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    Re: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    Wrong case, not on-point. Lee v. Weisman addresses this specific point. And to post it again for those who missed it:
    The point of posting the Hazelwood case was to demonstrate that the school had the right to review and not accept the boy's speech if they chose. I am not making an argument over religion here.
    "Men did not make the earth ... it is the value of the improvement only, and not the earth itself, that is individual property... Every proprietor owes to the community a ground rent for the land which he holds." -- Thomas Paine, Agrarian Justice
    http://www.wealthandwant.com/

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    Re: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    Wrong case, not on-point. Lee v. Weisman addresses this specific point. And to post it again for those who missed it:
    Please post a link to this. Now this is my second request.

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