View Poll Results: Should the school have banned the reading of the prayer by the student?

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  • Yes

    30 27.27%
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    75 68.18%
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Thread: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

  1. #691
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    Re: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

    Quote Originally Posted by davidtaylorjr View Post
    I never said that the case did not allow for censorship. I stated that it was specific as to the types of censorship. I never said it differentiated federal and school, I said that it stated when censorship could occur.

    You then take part of the case law without the rest to prove your point, rather than look at the whole.

    Your definition of Pedagogical, uncited by the way, doesn't cover a graduation speech as it is not part of the education process, nor is it related to a teacher.
    If it is a school sponsored event, the school has the authority to censor speeches and other things that THEY feel may be offensive.

    Jackpot!

    FindLaw | Cases and Codes

    (b) State officials here direct the performance of a formal religious exercise at secondary schools' promotional and graduation ceremonies. Lee's decision that prayers should be given and his selection of the religious participant are choices attributable to the State. Moreover, through the pamphlet and his advice that the prayers be nonsectarian, he directed and controlled the prayers' content. That the directions may have been given in a good-faith attempt to make the prayers acceptable to most persons does not resolve the dilemma caused by the school's involvement, since the government may not establish an official or civic religion as a means of avoiding the establishment of a religion with more specific creeds. Pp. 587-590.
    Read it and weep buddy!

  2. #692
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    Re: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

    Quote Originally Posted by davidtaylorjr View Post
    I was referring to public prayer.
    ive prayed public many times, nothing happened and aslo as you aren't infringing on the rights of others this is still allowed

    you must be talking about something very specific. Pleas detail your example.
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    Re: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

    Quote Originally Posted by davidtaylorjr View Post
    Seeing as I live near the school, and know people involved, I know he was told he could not include religion and then submitted his speech.
    so you have no links or proof to back this up? LMAO classic
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    Re: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    also opinion of whether it should or not is just that
    You do know this whole thread IS about opinions right?
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    Re: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

    Quote Originally Posted by davidtaylorjr View Post
    You do know this whole thread IS about opinions right?
    Wrong. Post #691. Case law specifically addresses school-sponsored ceremonies.

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    Re: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    Wrong. Post #691. Case law specifically addresses school-sponsored ceremonies.
    The intent of the thread by the original author, who happens to be me, was for people to give their opinions. I think I would know.
    Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same.

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    Re: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

    Quote Originally Posted by davidtaylorjr View Post
    You do know this whole thread IS about opinions right?

    wrong again, no the WHOLE thread is not about opinion

    but discussing opinion is fine when it is actually just opinion

    you get in trouble when you do the following:

    state an opinion and call it fact and it is not
    state an opinion that is factually wrong
    call posted facts not true

    you do know you have been trying to challenge facts and claim facts to be opinion right? LOL

    again the issues is yours, see my post 293 many many many pages ago
    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    so many random postings in this thread im not sure what everybody is actually arguing so ill state some facts

    The school has every right to censor, limit or not allow any speech that is given as a privileged to anybody at a school function.
    The kid broke the rules.


    now with that said people can debate thier opinions all they want about whether the kid did a good thing, bad thing etc but the facts wont change.
    try not challenging facts and things will work out better for you
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    Re: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

    Quote Originally Posted by davidtaylorjr View Post
    The intent of the thread by the original author, who happens to be me, was for people to give their opinions. I think I would know.
    Okay, but according to case law, it really isn't a matter of opinion. The school has every right to monitor and limit what is said in speeches during graduation and any other school-sponsored events. Just want to be sure we are CLEAR on that matter.

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    Re: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

    Quote Originally Posted by davidtaylorjr View Post
    The intent of the thread by the original author, who happens to be me, was for people to give their opinions. I think I would know.
    wow, you HAVE to be very young, it doesnt work that way

    there are facts being discussed within this thread and your OP doesnt change that lol

    there are opinions being discussed also and thos are fine

    YOU have challenged facts and lost
    YOU have presented opinion that is factually false
    YOU have presented opinion as fact and been proven wrong

    these are all your issues if you just want to talk opinions

    if this is what you would like to do that fine, start now

    post an actual OPINION

    GO!
    Last edited by AGENT J; 06-08-13 at 11:25 AM.
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    Re: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    Look, you can argue the point all you want but the fact is you are wrong. Schools CAN and DO monitor and limit what students can and cannot say in speeches at school-sponsored events.

    IF they didn't all hell would break lose.
    I'm wrong? Why? Cuz you said so? You can all you want as well, like that means something? Heh, but there now two of us has handed out permission slips today...

    If what a kid says is hate filled, if it incites violence, if it promotes illegal behavior than a school has every right to stifle him. Saying a prayer doesn't meet those qualifications. Schools who DO stifle their pupils, are abusing if not completely usurping authority not granted to them.

    Now, anything short of you trying to convince people that by this young man saying the Lord's Prayer -- it was really a rallying cry for the 10th Crusade, the young man hiding his sword and dirk under the podium waiting for some infidel to meet his gaze, than all you're doing is trying to justify the egregious act of stripping people of there natural right because you don't like what they have to say.

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