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Thread: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

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    re: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

    Quote Originally Posted by Risky Thicket View Post
    I think most here who disagree with the actions of the student in OP are not critical of his faith, but rather his misguided and potentially harmful use of it.
    Your post is all well and good, but the post I was responding to was seemingly trying to play the "Gotcha, hypocrite!" card by suggesting that conservatives would act in a similar fashion as some liberals are acting now if it was the Muslim Call to Prayer instead of the Lords Prayer. My point was that the actions would likely NOT be similar, as the foundation of much of the liberal response has been that its unconstitutional because it's a violation of church and state and I suggested that would NOT be the response you'd likely get from Conservatives.

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    re: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

    Quote Originally Posted by iacardsfan View Post
    I've posted this about 15 times already but apparently nobody understands it so I will post it again.

    Supreme Court Ruling:
    Yep, thanks. Sorry that after I had posted.

    My one issue is this runs a VERY thin line in my eye because it was not the school or a school official making the statement, it was a student. The Constitution limits the GOVERNMENT, not individuals. I'm not quite sure if all restrictions we'd place on what a school administrator in terms of what they could say are the same that should be placed upon a student.

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    re: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Yep, thanks. Sorry that after I had posted.

    My one issue is this runs a VERY thin line in my eye because it was not the school or a school official making the statement, it was a student. The Constitution limits the GOVERNMENT, not individuals. I'm not quite sure if all restrictions we'd place on what a school administrator in terms of what they could say are the same that should be placed upon a student.
    I can see what you are saying. But I believe personally since it was a school sponsored event then it would fall under the same category, but either way it's not a huge deal in my eyes, just pointing out there was a case on it
    "Conservatism is the blind and fear-filled worship of dead radicals."
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    re: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

    Quote Originally Posted by davidtaylorjr View Post
    And how does the Constitution limit this speech? It doesn't.
    Are you from the US? Of course there are limits on free speech!

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    re: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

    Quote Originally Posted by Removable Mind View Post
    Are you from the US? Of course there are limits on free speech!
    Yes I am.
    Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same.

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    re: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

    Quote Originally Posted by iacardsfan View Post
    I can see what you are saying. But I believe personally since it was a school sponsored event then it would fall under the same category, but either way it's not a huge deal in my eyes, just pointing out there was a case on it
    Just as a matter of even application of constitutional restrictions...

    If a student back in 2006 or so got up for their Valedictorian speech and in the midst of it made a passionate case against the Iraq war and proceed to proclaim that George Bush is a criminal who is guilty of violating the laws of the united states, would you beleive that'd be a violation of the constitution as well since it's a school sponsored event?

    After all, the Government is required to presume innocence and a government official couldn't come out proclaiming that an individual citizen is guilty of a crime they've not been found guilty of. And it would be a "government sponsored" event, so would the kid be guilty of engaging in unconstitutional activity?

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    re: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

    Quote Originally Posted by davidtaylorjr View Post
    Yes I am.
    And? You claimed there's no limits on Freedom of Speech. That is false.

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    re: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

    Quote Originally Posted by iacardsfan View Post
    Supreme Court Ruling:

    The right to engage in voluntary prayer does not include the right to have a captive audience for that prayer or to compel other students to participate.
    And you can keep on posting it and it will continue to be ignored. There is no "captive audience" here. This is not a mandatory event. It's entirely voluntary. There is no law mandating graduation ceremonies, they are strictly tradition and are not required for actual matriculation.

    I've posted twice where the SCOTUS considers student speech like that of the valedictorian to be expressions of the student's views, NOT the school's views and thus are protected under the First.

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    re: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    And you can keep on posting it and it will continue to be ignored. There is no "captive audience" here. This is not a mandatory event. It's entirely voluntary. There is no law mandating graduation ceremonies, they are strictly tradition and are not required for actual matriculation.

    I've posted twice where the SCOTUS considers student speech like that of the valedictorian to be expressions of the student's views, NOT the school's views and thus are protected under the First.
    Of course they won't listen. They are dogmatic that no religion should ever be expressed publically. I would venture to say they would love to see street preachers done with too.
    Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same.

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    re: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Your post is all well and good, but the post I was responding to was seemingly trying to play the "Gotcha, hypocrite!" card by suggesting that conservatives would act in a similar fashion as some liberals are acting now if it was the Muslim Call to Prayer instead of the Lords Prayer. My point was that the actions would likely NOT be similar, as the foundation of much of the liberal response has been that its unconstitutional because it's a violation of church and state and I suggested that would NOT be the response you'd likely get from Conservatives.
    Oh, I see what you were saying. Let me clarify that I wasn't coming from a political perspective. I truly am independent and Independent politically. I am non-partisan and often non-political. I don't see the issue as a liberal/conservative issue. I don't necessarily see it as a Christian issue. As I stated in another post, I question the kid's intentions. Others have stated several times that Christians are often being treated unfairly. I've responded by asking each poster for specific examples of what they have stated. All have chosen not to reply.

    Christians, Buddhists, Taoists, Jews, conservatives, liberals, libertarians, etc. are sometimes wrong in their actions and words. I've never taken that to mean therefore that one wrong action or statement from one of the above does not warrant an indictment of the groups to which the belong or with which they identify. In this instance to disagree with kid's commencement behavior does not mean that all Christians are bad, all conservatives are bad (in fact I don't know if the kid is a conservative or not) or all students are bad or all South Carolinians are bad. I haven't said that and I don't see many here who have, though yes, some can't wait to make every issue a conservative vs. liberal issue. I see that as being disingenuous and I try very hard to ignore that ever tiring dribble. It serves little purpose.
    Last edited by Risky Thicket; 06-07-13 at 04:32 PM.










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