View Poll Results: Should the school have banned the reading of the prayer by the student?

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Thread: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

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    re: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Students have that sort of authority, but they have different expectations in comparison to educators. Educators are representatives of the public school district, a state entity. They have to, generally speaking, refrain from such speech.
    And the valedictorian isn't being a representative for his/her school through his/her graduation speech? You don't think there ought to be some expectations/standards? What if he decided to read the dictionary from cover to cover? Freedom of speech right?
    "Men did not make the earth ... it is the value of the improvement only, and not the earth itself, that is individual property... Every proprietor owes to the community a ground rent for the land which he holds." -- Thomas Paine, Agrarian Justice
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    re: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    Rights override privileges most of the time. Don't like what he said, don't have him do it again. Oh wait, he's not going to...
    But to deny his right to speak at the podium again would be violating his 1st Amendment rights!
    "Men did not make the earth ... it is the value of the improvement only, and not the earth itself, that is individual property... Every proprietor owes to the community a ground rent for the land which he holds." -- Thomas Paine, Agrarian Justice
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    re: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

    To those who think this is a free speech issue: Do you believe any student should have been allowed to walk up to the stage and start giving their own speech? Do you believe the administration would have had the right to stop them if they tried?
    "Men did not make the earth ... it is the value of the improvement only, and not the earth itself, that is individual property... Every proprietor owes to the community a ground rent for the land which he holds." -- Thomas Paine, Agrarian Justice
    http://www.wealthandwant.com/

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    re: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

    Quote Originally Posted by Geoist View Post
    But to deny his right to speak at the podium again would be violating his 1st Amendment rights!
    Notice I said "most of the time". When he's operating as an official representative of the state, that's different than when he's only representing himself.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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    re: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

    Quote Originally Posted by Geoist View Post
    To those who think this is a free speech issue: Do you believe any student should have been allowed to walk up to the stage and start giving their own speech? Do you believe the administration would have had the right to stop them if they tried?
    Absolutely. You have a right to speak, nobody has a responsibility to give you a forum to do so.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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    re: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

    Since I have not read the entire thread I'm not sure if anyone has pointed out the case, but in case no one has:
    Hazelwood v. Kuhlmeier - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    "Men did not make the earth ... it is the value of the improvement only, and not the earth itself, that is individual property... Every proprietor owes to the community a ground rent for the land which he holds." -- Thomas Paine, Agrarian Justice
    http://www.wealthandwant.com/

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    re: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    Notice I said "most of the time". When he's operating as an official representative of the state, that's different than when he's only representing himself.
    He is not only representing himself, he is representing his school and graduating class.
    "Men did not make the earth ... it is the value of the improvement only, and not the earth itself, that is individual property... Every proprietor owes to the community a ground rent for the land which he holds." -- Thomas Paine, Agrarian Justice
    http://www.wealthandwant.com/

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    re: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    Absolutely. You have a right to speak, nobody has a responsibility to give you a forum to do so.
    Then you have proven my point. Since the administration did not have to give the valedictorian the podium his position was that of privilege, not a right.
    "Men did not make the earth ... it is the value of the improvement only, and not the earth itself, that is individual property... Every proprietor owes to the community a ground rent for the land which he holds." -- Thomas Paine, Agrarian Justice
    http://www.wealthandwant.com/

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    re: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

    Quote Originally Posted by Geoist View Post
    And the valedictorian isn't being a representative for his/her school through his/her graduation speech? You don't think there ought to be some expectations/standards? What if he decided to read the dictionary from cover to cover? Freedom of speech right?
    Did you bother to read any of my earlier posts?
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

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    re: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Did you bother to read any of my earlier posts?
    I don't always have the time to read 40+ pages of one thread.

    But I do try to respond to everyone who quotes me. Please summarize your earlier point if you will, or direct me to it.
    "Men did not make the earth ... it is the value of the improvement only, and not the earth itself, that is individual property... Every proprietor owes to the community a ground rent for the land which he holds." -- Thomas Paine, Agrarian Justice
    http://www.wealthandwant.com/

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