View Poll Results: Should the school have banned the reading of the prayer by the student?

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    30 27.27%
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    75 68.18%
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Thread: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

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    re: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

    Quote Originally Posted by AlabamaPaul View Post
    Any restriction of speech relating to religious expression would...
    Here it is again, just for you.

    Student religious expression may, however, raise Establishment Clause concerns when such expression takes place before a captive audience in a classroom or at a school-sponsored event. Students have the right to pray alone or in groups or to discuss their faith with classmates, as long as they aren't disruptive or coercive. And they may express their religious views in class assignments or discussions, as long as it is relevant to the subject under consideration and meets the requirements of the assignment.2 But students don’t have a right to force a captive audience to participate in religious exercises

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    re: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

    Evening Polgara....that sounds harmless and fun. I think what this kid did was a little too devious. Breaking an agreement to recite a prayer sounds like a contradiction to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by polgara View Post
    Good evening, Jack

    Reminds me of a true story I read a while back where a valedictorian wanted to include God in his speech, so he got the class together and stated that he would sneeze during his speech...and they would respond as a class "God bless you!" Went off without a hitch!

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    re: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    This is about the school setting guidelines and rules regarding speeches made at school sponsored events, not about me being offended. I'm not offended by the prayer at all, but I can understand how others might not want to be subjected to an unexpected sermon, and I can understand how the school wants to keep things like this from being a thorn in their sides.
    I understand this isn't about you personally being offended Chris. But the probably correct supposition that someone in the audience may be offended is no bar to the speaker's right to speak in this case. In fact the SCOTUS was very clear about this. The valedictorian can say what he wants. The school officials, the only recourse they have is to turn off the mic.

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    re: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    As they say in Congress, I note that you have clarified and extended your remarks. Fair enough, but the valedictorian's speech was clearly in the protected category.
    no i pointer out your misunderstanding
    and thats only your OPINION, something like that can not be determined by you

    also note some of the cases you brought up agrees with me and disagrees with you
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    re: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    I understand this isn't about you personally being offended Chris. But the probably correct supposition that someone in the audience may be offended is no bar to the speaker's right to speak in this case. In fact the SCOTUS was very clear about this. The valedictorian can say what he wants. The school officials, the only recourse they have is to turn off the mic.
    The school most certainly has the right to have students submit speeches for preapproval.

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    re: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    Here it is again, just for you.
    And just for you, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech". Court rulings are irrelevant in this regard...
    I don't often change my signature, but this was just too over the top to let anyone forget with what this country is up against...
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    re: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

    Quote Originally Posted by Mathematician View Post
    Think for a second. I'm saying to let the valedictorian say what they want. That is, that rule shouldn't be there or should be more lenient. What the student wanted to say should not be reasonably deemed offensive.
    Exactly.

    Apparently the lords prayer is offensive to some people?

    Matt. 6(9-13)
    “Our Father in heaven,
    hallowed be your name.[a]
    10 Your kingdom come,
    your will be done,[b]
    on earth as it is in heaven.
    11 Give us this day our daily bread,[c]
    12 and forgive us our debts,
    as we also have forgiven our debtors.
    13 And lead us not into temptation,
    but deliver us from evil.[d]



    Yep that's very scary stuff right there (sarcasm)

    This should be a non-issue and people should stop bitching about stupid **** like a prayer spoken in a culturally correct climate.
    I believe half of the things I say and say half of the things I believe.

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    re: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

    Quote Originally Posted by JC Callender View Post
    Okay, I thought for a second and here's what I came up with: Not offensive to who....anyone? You don't think that could offend someone who doesn't believe in his God? Would you be comfortable with a Muslim prayer.
    No, I would not be offended. They are stating what they believe. If they're using their religion in a positive manner then all the power to them. Motivation for academic achievement is positive, regardless of which religion it came from.
    "With me everything turns into mathematics."
    "It is not enough to have a good mind. The main thing is to use it well."
    "It is truth very certain that, when it is not in one's power to determine what is true, we ought to follow what is more probable." -- Rene Descartes

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    re: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    The school most certainly has the right to have students submit speeches for preapproval.
    Yes, but they have no right to compel the student to follow that pre-approved speech. Again, they can only cut off his/her mic as a consequence, that's the extent of their power.

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    re: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

    Schools should not have to deal with these kinds of things. Lawyers are EXPENSIVE. Yes, there are people who would sue the school over things like this. These are all rational things that the school has to think about protecting itself from. They want to keep it vanilla, and they should be able to expect people (especially their students) to honor that.

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