View Poll Results: Should the school have banned the reading of the prayer by the student?

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Thread: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

  1. #331
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    re: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

    You were okay with that? It didn't seem at all inappropriate?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    A Muslim prayer was once recited at one of our children's graduation. What's the issue?

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    re: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    SOME people would consider a Christian prayer to be offensive. That is something you need to realize.
    And still others would find offensive the most benign statements by valedictorians or commencement speaker. You have no right to guard against being offended. In fact, in most cases you have a right to speak that which you know will offend some of the people listening.

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    re: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    Except when their rules violate the Constitution.

    The issue of school speech as it relates to the First Amendment of the U.S. Constitution is one that has been of much debate and the subject of much litigation since the mid-20th century. The First Amendment's guarantee of freedom of speech applies to students in the public schools: In the landmark decision Tinker v. Des Moines Independent Community School District, the Supreme Court formally recognized that students do not "shed their constitutional rights to freedom of speech or expression at the schoolhouse gate."[1]

    The core principles of Tinker remain unaltered, but are tempered by several important decisions -- Bethel School District v. Fraser, Hazelwood School District v. Kuhlmeier, and Morse v. Frederick.[2] Despite respect for the legitimate educational interests of school officials, the Supreme Court has not abandoned Tinker; it continues to recognize the basis precept of Tinker that viewpoint-specific speech restrictions are an egregious violation of the First Amendment.[2] In Rosenberger v. Rector and Visitors of the University of Virginia, the Supreme Court declared: "Discrimination against speech because of its message is presumed to be unconstitutional." Rosenberger held that denial of funds to a student organization on the sole basis that the funds were used to publish a religiously oriented student newspaper was an unconstitutional violation of the right of free speech guaranteed by the First Amendment. Accordingly, for other speech, that is, on-campus speech which is neither obscene, vulgar, lewd, indecent or plainly offensive under Fraser nor school-sponsored under Hazelwood nor advocating illegal drugs at a school-sponsored event under Frederick, Tinker applies limiting the authority of schools to regulate the speech, whether on or off-campus, unless it would materially and substantially disrupt classwork and discipline in the school.
    Might we summarize this earth shattering event as " Christians gittin' all feisty and all, y'all" ?...................

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    re: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

    Quote Originally Posted by AlabamaPaul View Post
    They cannot set any rule which violates the Constitution's "or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;"...
    They didn't.

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    re: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

    You have no right to guard against being offended.....what?

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    And still others would find offensive the most benign statements by valedictorians or commencement speaker. You have no right to guard against being offended. In fact, in most cases you have a right to speak that which you know will offend some of the people listening.

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    re: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    And still others would find offensive the most benign statements by valedictorians or commencement speaker. You have no right to guard against being offended. In fact, in most cases you have a right to speak that which you know will offend some of the people listening.
    Damn, I'm finding my self in agreement with some of your thoughts this evening...
    I don't often change my signature, but this was just too over the top to let anyone forget with what this country is up against...
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    I am for gay marriage because it ticks off Jesus freaks and social conservatives. Gays are also good voters because the vote for my side so I fight next to them.

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    re: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

    From my link I posted earlier.

    Student religious expression may, however, raise Establishment Clause concerns when such expression takes place before a captive audience in a classroom or at a school-sponsored event. Students have the right to pray alone or in groups or to discuss their faith with classmates, as long as they aren't disruptive or coercive. And they may express their religious views in class assignments or discussions, as long as it is relevant to the subject under consideration and meets the requirements of the assignment.2 But students donít have a right to force a captive audience to participate in religious exercises.
    faqs

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    re: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

    Quote Originally Posted by JC Callender View Post
    You were okay with that? It didn't seem at all inappropriate?
    We were outside the US and there were Muslim students at the school. Not a big deal. Had a Christian prayer too.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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    re: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    The school has a right to set rules and guidelines at their own events. That is the point. It doesn't matter if you personally don't agree with them.

    The school is not violating any rights by saying all speeches must be preapproved at one of their events.
    Again, they cannot set rules that go against the state of federal constitution. Oh, they can, but there's nothing they can do about those who break those rules. Such is the case here. As I have shown with the SCOTUS ruling on the subject.

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    re: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    Sorry, but you have it wrong.

    The issue of school speech as it relates to the First Amendment of the U.S. Constitution is one that has been of much debate and the subject of much litigation since the mid-20th century. The First Amendment's guarantee of freedom of speech applies to students in the public schools: In the landmark decision Tinker v. Des Moines Independent Community School District, the Supreme Court formally recognized that students do not "shed their constitutional rights to freedom of speech or expression at the schoolhouse gate."[1]

    The core principles of Tinker remain unaltered, but are tempered by several important decisions -- Bethel School District v. Fraser, Hazelwood School District v. Kuhlmeier, and Morse v. Frederick.[2] Despite respect for the legitimate educational interests of school officials, the Supreme Court has not abandoned Tinker; it continues to recognize the basis precept of Tinker that viewpoint-specific speech restrictions are an egregious violation of the First Amendment.[2] In Rosenberger v. Rector and Visitors of the University of Virginia, the Supreme Court declared: "Discrimination against speech because of its message is presumed to be unconstitutional." Rosenberger held that denial of funds to a student organization on the sole basis that the funds were used to publish a religiously oriented student newspaper was an unconstitutional violation of the right of free speech guaranteed by the First Amendment. Accordingly, for other speech, that is, on-campus speech which is neither obscene, vulgar, lewd, indecent or plainly offensive under Fraser nor school-sponsored under Hazelwood nor advocating illegal drugs at a school-sponsored event under Frederick, Tinker applies limiting the authority of schools to regulate the speech, whether on or off-campus, unless it would materially and substantially disrupt classwork and discipline in the school.

    Is this a great country, or what?
    who said they give up their 1st amendment rights? not me and please notice the part where it refers to all the things that CAN be censored, thanks
    we arent talkign about DISCRIMINATION against speech allowing one and not allowing another

    my statements is in fact true, schools can in fact censor, limit or ban speech
    you assume i meant any and all speech, i did not

    also from hazelwood that you mentioned

    Hazelwood
    Main article: Hazelwood School District v. Kuhlmeier

    The Hazelwood School District case applies the principles set forth in Fraser to curricular matters. In Hazelwood, the Supreme Court upheld a school's decision to censor certain articles in the school newspaper which was produced as part of the school's journalism curriculum. Echoing Fraser, the Supreme Court observed that "[a] school need not tolerate student speech that is inconsistent with 'its basic educational mission' ... even though the government could not censor similar speech outside the school." School authorities and educators do not offend the First Amendment by exercising editorial control over the style and content of student speech in school-sponsored expressive activities so long as their actions are reasonably related to legitimate pedagogical concerns.[7]

    sorry i got nothign wrong
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