View Poll Results: Should the school have banned the reading of the prayer by the student?

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Thread: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

  1. #321
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    re: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

    Quote Originally Posted by AlabamaPaul View Post
    Again, it was a graduation ceremony. The students have completed this facet of their lives...
    The school is still liable for all school sponsored events. They set the rules and the guidelines for their events. That's life.

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    re: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    I posted the relevent SCOTUS decision and what it means. The kid here was not doing anything wrong.
    Bingo.

    The issue of school speech as it relates to the First Amendment of the U.S. Constitution is one that has been of much debate and the subject of much litigation since the mid-20th century. The First Amendment's guarantee of freedom of speech applies to students in the public schools: In the landmark decision Tinker v. Des Moines Independent Community School District, the Supreme Court formally recognized that students do not "shed their constitutional rights to freedom of speech or expression at the schoolhouse gate."[1]

    The core principles of Tinker remain unaltered, but are tempered by several important decisions -- Bethel School District v. Fraser, Hazelwood School District v. Kuhlmeier, and Morse v. Frederick.[2] Despite respect for the legitimate educational interests of school officials, the Supreme Court has not abandoned Tinker; it continues to recognize the basis precept of Tinker that viewpoint-specific speech restrictions are an egregious violation of the First Amendment.[2] In Rosenberger v. Rector and Visitors of the University of Virginia, the Supreme Court declared: "Discrimination against speech because of its message is presumed to be unconstitutional." Rosenberger held that denial of funds to a student organization on the sole basis that the funds were used to publish a religiously oriented student newspaper was an unconstitutional violation of the right of free speech guaranteed by the First Amendment. Accordingly, for other speech, that is, on-campus speech which is neither obscene, vulgar, lewd, indecent or plainly offensive under Fraser nor school-sponsored under Hazelwood nor advocating illegal drugs at a school-sponsored event under Frederick, Tinker applies limiting the authority of schools to regulate the speech, whether on or off-campus, unless it would materially and substantially disrupt classwork and discipline in the school.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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    re: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    The school is still liable for all school sponsored events. They set the rules and the guidelines for their events. That's life.
    Except when their rules violate the Constitution.

    The issue of school speech as it relates to the First Amendment of the U.S. Constitution is one that has been of much debate and the subject of much litigation since the mid-20th century. The First Amendment's guarantee of freedom of speech applies to students in the public schools: In the landmark decision Tinker v. Des Moines Independent Community School District, the Supreme Court formally recognized that students do not "shed their constitutional rights to freedom of speech or expression at the schoolhouse gate."[1]

    The core principles of Tinker remain unaltered, but are tempered by several important decisions -- Bethel School District v. Fraser, Hazelwood School District v. Kuhlmeier, and Morse v. Frederick.[2] Despite respect for the legitimate educational interests of school officials, the Supreme Court has not abandoned Tinker; it continues to recognize the basis precept of Tinker that viewpoint-specific speech restrictions are an egregious violation of the First Amendment.[2] In Rosenberger v. Rector and Visitors of the University of Virginia, the Supreme Court declared: "Discrimination against speech because of its message is presumed to be unconstitutional." Rosenberger held that denial of funds to a student organization on the sole basis that the funds were used to publish a religiously oriented student newspaper was an unconstitutional violation of the right of free speech guaranteed by the First Amendment. Accordingly, for other speech, that is, on-campus speech which is neither obscene, vulgar, lewd, indecent or plainly offensive under Fraser nor school-sponsored under Hazelwood nor advocating illegal drugs at a school-sponsored event under Frederick, Tinker applies limiting the authority of schools to regulate the speech, whether on or off-campus, unless it would materially and substantially disrupt classwork and discipline in the school.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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    re: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    Bingo.

    The issue of school speech as it relates to the First Amendment of the U.S. Constitution is one that has been of much debate and the subject of much litigation since the mid-20th century. The First Amendment's guarantee of freedom of speech applies to students in the public schools: In the landmark decision Tinker v. Des Moines Independent Community School District, the Supreme Court formally recognized that students do not "shed their constitutional rights to freedom of speech or expression at the schoolhouse gate."[1]

    The core principles of Tinker remain unaltered, but are tempered by several important decisions -- Bethel School District v. Fraser, Hazelwood School District v. Kuhlmeier, and Morse v. Frederick.[2] Despite respect for the legitimate educational interests of school officials, the Supreme Court has not abandoned Tinker; it continues to recognize the basis precept of Tinker that viewpoint-specific speech restrictions are an egregious violation of the First Amendment.[2] In Rosenberger v. Rector and Visitors of the University of Virginia, the Supreme Court declared: "Discrimination against speech because of its message is presumed to be unconstitutional." Rosenberger held that denial of funds to a student organization on the sole basis that the funds were used to publish a religiously oriented student newspaper was an unconstitutional violation of the right of free speech guaranteed by the First Amendment. Accordingly, for other speech, that is, on-campus speech which is neither obscene, vulgar, lewd, indecent or plainly offensive under Fraser nor school-sponsored under Hazelwood nor advocating illegal drugs at a school-sponsored event under Frederick, Tinker applies limiting the authority of schools to regulate the speech, whether on or off-campus, unless it would materially and substantially disrupt classwork and discipline in the school.
    SOME people would consider a Christian prayer to be offensive. That is something you need to realize.

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    re: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    The school is still liable for all school sponsored events. They set the rules and the guidelines for their events. That's life.
    Liabilty is not an issue here, nothing was done that would trigger the school being liable for anything.

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    re: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    The school is still liable for all school sponsored events. They set the rules and the guidelines for their events. That's life.
    They cannot set any rule which violates the Constitution's "or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;"...
    I don't often change my signature, but this was just too over the top to let anyone forget with what this country is up against...
    Quote Originally Posted by James D Hill View Post
    I am for gay marriage because it ticks off Jesus freaks and social conservatives. Gays are also good voters because the vote for my side so I fight next to them.

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    re: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

    Quote Originally Posted by JC Callender View Post
    Evening Jack....would you feel uncomfortable if it were an acquaintances graduation and the valedictorian recited a Muslim prayer?
    A Muslim prayer was once recited at one of our children's graduation. What's the issue?
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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    re: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

    Okay, I thought for a second and here's what I came up with: Not offensive to who....anyone? You don't think that could offend someone who doesn't believe in his God? Would you be comfortable with a Muslim prayer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mathematician View Post
    Think for a second. I'm saying to let the valedictorian say what they want. That is, that rule shouldn't be there or should be more lenient. What the student wanted to say should not be reasonably deemed offensive.

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    re: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    Liabilty is not an issue here, nothing was done that would trigger the school being liable for anything.
    The school has a right to set rules and guidelines at their own events. That is the point. It doesn't matter if you personally don't agree with them.

    The school is not violating any rights by saying all speeches must be preapproved at one of their events.

  10. #330
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    re: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    SOME people would consider a Christian prayer to be offensive. That is something you need to realize.
    The SCOTUS does not. Religious speech is explicitly protected.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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