View Poll Results: Should the school have banned the reading of the prayer by the student?

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Thread: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

  1. #21
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    re: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

    Quote Originally Posted by notquiteright View Post
    Now ya see I would say the alternative prospective is not having GAWD drug into everything, especially in the South.

    The separation some decry as not in the Constitution is, just not the way some would like. religious freedom doesn't mean a free for all where any public display is fine. It is a Individual Right to practice your Faith, not the ability to practice it for us. (that your rights end at my nose thing) that makes public gatherings a separate issue.

    As someone above mentioned just how upset would the Christians here be if a Muslim Student read from the Quran?

    One small detail often overlooked when addressing the issues involving schools/districts/rules is minor children in the 'care' of the school system don't have the same 'rights' as adults outside the school system. I do believe even 18 year old high school students do not have the same rights 18 year old college students have.

    just a for instance, in College a parent can't receive the 18 year old's transcript unless the student agrees, not so in high School. The Privacy laws are different.
    It's a prayer, in his personal farewell address given in a christian majority state. If a Muslim prayer was said in a Muslim majority state it would be equally appropriate. I don't usually like to speculate but since you and another think it's fun to change the topic and attempt to throw in a curve ball by speculating over what what might have happened if it were a Muslim valedictorian reciting from the Quran then I would say given the fear factor the school is already showing over the question of allowing someone to bring into their own speech elements from their own christian religion then they are already succumbing to the liberal idiocy regarding fear of anything christian. The response (again this is all speculative since it hasn't happened) would have been a large population of liberals applauding the kid for standing up for his faith and then calling anyone who showed any sort of hesitation against the speech a christian bigot. It's usually how it goes.

    Personally I wouldn't care either way, I think in a speech given as a farewell address the speaker is bound to throw in some personal elements relevant to themselves. If it's a christian speaking to a christian majority crowd then throwing in a prayer is perfectly acceptable.
    I believe half of the things I say and say half of the things I believe.

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    re: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

    Quote Originally Posted by davidtaylorjr View Post
    You realize there is nothing in the constitution about such things? That was from a letter from Jefferson on a totally different matter. And, schools currently allow student initated prayer, the school itself just can't do so.

    Freedom of speech my friend.
    Freedom of religion my friend. The Valedictorian is imposing their religious views on people of may different religions, that is offensive to say the least especially to the parents of children who came to the ceremony that are of different religions. Not everybody is your religion, not everybody believes in God, not everybody needs to be subjected to your religion. Just because the Valedictorian is a certain religion doesn't mean everybody is, and they should respect the guests by refraining from mentioning religion. Freedom of speech only extends as long as it is not violating any other rights of individuals, and in this case it is.
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    re: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

    Quote Originally Posted by Monserrat View Post
    It's a prayer, in his personal farewell address given in a christian majority state. If a Muslim prayer was said in a Muslim majority state it would be equally appropriate. I don't usually like to speculate but since you and another think it's fun to change the topic and attempt to throw in a curve ball by speculating over what what might have happened if it were a Muslim valedictorian reciting from the Quran then I would say given the fear factor the school is already showing over the question of allowing someone to bring into their own speech elements from their own christian religion then they are already succumbing to the liberal idiocy regarding fear of anything christian. The response (again this is all speculative since it hasn't happened) would have been a large population of liberals applauding the kid for standing up for his faith and then calling anyone who showed any sort of hesitation against the speech a christian bigot. It's usually how it goes.

    Personally I wouldn't care either way, I think in a speech given as a farewell address the speaker is bound to throw in some personal elements relevant to themselves. If it's a christian speaking to a christian majority crowd then throwing in a prayer is perfectly acceptable.
    Ahhh the majority rules thing, sort of like Jim Crow laws or interracial marriage laws. Unfortunately for that line of reason the Constitution doesn't say one thing for one majority and another for a different crowd. there were plenty of other times for him to pray for his fellow students, he could have simply done the moment of silence... but no he wanted to say the word which is preaching. I know the Christians don't want to see it that way but it is.

    Don't confuse wanting our rights to be recognized with fearing Christianity. Christians just love to be the martyrs in these discussions. The Muslim thing is to smoke out the very confused rationalizations Christians go through to justify their insistence on religion in all events but not any other POV.

    There are plenty of personal parts a student can throw in without praying. Most students pray BEFORE they graduate.

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    re: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

    Quote Originally Posted by iacardsfan View Post
    Freedom of religion my friend. The Valedictorian is imposing their religious views on people of may different religions, that is offensive to say the least especially to the parents of children who came to the ceremony that are of different religions. Not everybody is your religion, not everybody believes in God, not everybody needs to be subjected to your religion. Just because the Valedictorian is a certain religion doesn't mean everybody is, and they should respect the guests by refraining from mentioning religion. Freedom of speech only extends as long as it is not violating any other rights of individuals, and in this case it is.
    Exactly, good point.

    Just ****ing pray after the speech, or before the speech, or during the speech in your head.

    Why is there a need for it to be audible???

    annoying

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    re: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

    As long as their is no discriminatory requirement to be Valedictorian and the Valedictorian gets to make a speech, then I don't have an objection to what this student did for his speech. Same for a Muslim student or whatever. They earned it.

    I would also be OK if the school wanted to limit the speech to 5 minutes and cutting the mic at the 5 min mark.

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    re: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

    In all honesty, I have nothing against any religion. The Valedictorian can pray after the speech concludes though. There are graduation parties where those who do not wish to participate can leave, but if students wish to not hear the speech during the actual graduation, they have no choice but to listen, not exactly fair. Not everybody subscribes to the same religion, people need to realize that. Majority does not apply because EVERY religion is protected by the 1st amendment.
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    re: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

    Quote Originally Posted by iacardsfan View Post
    Freedom of religion my friend. The Valedictorian is imposing their religious views on people of may different religions, that is offensive to say the least especially to the parents of children who came to the ceremony that are of different religions. Not everybody is your religion, not everybody believes in God, not everybody needs to be subjected to your religion. Just because the Valedictorian is a certain religion doesn't mean everybody is, and they should respect the guests by refraining from mentioning religion. Freedom of speech only extends as long as it is not violating any other rights of individuals, and in this case it is.
    You don't have the right to not hear the religion of someone else.
    Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same.

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    re: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

    It is his valedictorian speech. It's his time. He can say whatever he wants. The kid finished highschool top of his class and he will have a bright future if he keeps up the good work. The fact that he is religious was a bonus to him and he has no given thanks to what he believed helped him through -> i.e. his faith.

    Again. His speech. he has the right to say whatever he wants. Praying isn't hate speech.

    Then again, Jesus did warn us of people who pray in public for all to see. they aren't bad people... just prideful people who want to appear modest.

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    re: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

    Quote Originally Posted by shlunka View Post
    Separation from church and state, the valedictorian is in the wrong. Simple as that.
    The valedictorian is not a government institution. He is a private individual. Separation of Church and state doesn't apply here.

  10. #30
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    re: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

    Quote Originally Posted by davidtaylorjr View Post
    You don't have the right to not hear the religion of someone else.
    Are you kidding me? This person is forcing people to listen to their religion.

    From the Justice Department:

    The Supreme Court has interpreted “free exercise” to mean that any individual may believe anything he or she wants, but there may be times when the state can limit or interfere with practices that flow from those beliefs.

    The right to engage in voluntary prayer does not include the right to have a captive audience for that prayer or to compel other students to participate.
    "Conservatism is the blind and fear-filled worship of dead radicals."
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