View Poll Results: Should the school have banned the reading of the prayer by the student?

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Thread: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

  1. #11
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    re: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

    Quote Originally Posted by TwEnTY-SiX View Post
    The point of contention for me was that his speech was unapproved. Freedom of Speech does not allow you to say whatever you want, and organizations are allowed to place self-restricting limitations on what one can say or do as a parameter for membership. If a member acts against these agreed upon rules then they can be punished. So the valedictorian speeches require approval and the speech given was not the one approved, then quite simply he broke the rule and deserves punishment. On the other hand, I personally don't see any good valid reason for denying him the ability to incorporate a prayer into his speech if he so chose to do so.

    Personal invocation of God or the use of prayer is not a violation of religious freedom, it is when faith-based principles are directly applied through the legislative process to show preference to one faith over another that violates the separation. People who would be offended by such a speech have thin skin and should realize that the diversity of opinion makes it impossible to avoid topics that you may not agree with. If you don't like listening to prayers then you should avoid being around people who don't mind praying in public.
    It's not a member situation. This is a state-run school, making a rule about free speech and limiting it. That is a violation of the Constitution.
    Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same.

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    re: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

    Quote Originally Posted by shlunka View Post
    Separation from church and state, the valedictorian is in the wrong. Simple as that.
    I understand hating religion is part of being liberal today but why not just say that?

    Feigning ignorance is just, well, ignorant.

    It's not like the First Amendment is vague.

    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
    And it very clearly says nothing about holding a fellowship club in a high school basement, wearing religious jewelry, etc.
    Last edited by Dapper Andy; 06-06-13 at 03:33 PM.

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    re: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

    Quote Originally Posted by Josie View Post
    I don't know why people go soooooooooooooooooo offended by anything religious. I mean.... anything Christian. It was his speech representing himself and his life. Valedictorians shouldn't have to edit and revise their speeches to make sure they don't offend any beliefs of those in the audience. Ridiculous.
    If the valedictorian in South Carolina had prayed a Muslim prayer instead, what do you honestly think the reaction would have been?










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    re: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

    Quote Originally Posted by davidtaylorjr View Post
    1st Ammendment rights are often overlooked for Christians.
    Really? Give us 10 examples, please, compared to other religions and be specific.

    Try to put it the other way around and the liberals throw the book at you.
    You sound as if you are one of those people who when meeting someone for the first time asks - "Are you a liberal or are you a Christian?" What a load of bollocks!

    What exactly is "putting it the other way around" and what do you mean by "throwing the book at you"?










    "When Faith preaches Hate, Blessed are the Doubters." - Amin Maalouf

    When trouble arises and things look bad, there is always one individual who perceives a solution and is willing to take command. Very often, that person is crazy. ~Dave Barry



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    re: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

    Quote Originally Posted by davidtaylorjr View Post
    It's not a member situation. This is a state-run school, making a rule about free speech and limiting it. That is a violation of the Constitution.
    In Frisby v. Schultz, the Supreme Court decided that "the First Amendment permits the government to prohibit offensive speech as intrusive when the 'captive' audience cannot avoid the objectionable speech."
    http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/95-815.pdf

    As I mentioned though, I personally don't see the need in denying him his prayer. People in general need to grow thicker skin and accept alternative perspectives.

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    re: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

    Quote Originally Posted by Risky Thicket View Post
    Really? Give us 10 examples, please, compared to other religions and be specific.



    You sound as if you are one of those people who when meeting someone for the first time asks - "Are you a liberal or are you a Christian?" What a load of bollocks!

    What exactly is "putting it the other way around" and what do you mean by "throwing the book at you"?
    No I don't ask that, that would be absurd. But when I see Religion being attacked, it makes me mad. Nobody tells the evolutionist or Athiest to shutup, that they can't spread their religion in schools.
    Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same.

    Ronald Reagan

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    re: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

    Quote Originally Posted by TwEnTY-SiX View Post
    In Frisby v. Schultz, the Supreme Court decided that "the First Amendment permits the government to prohibit offensive speech as intrusive when the 'captive' audience cannot avoid the objectionable speech."
    http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/95-815.pdf

    As I mentioned though, I personally don't see the need in denying him his prayer. People in general need to grow thicker skin and accept alternative perspectives.
    The captive audience isn't required to be at a Graduation.
    Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same.

    Ronald Reagan

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    re: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

    Quote Originally Posted by davidtaylorjr View Post
    Liberty High valedictorian's speech causes stir - FOX Carolina 21

    Do you think the school was right to ban this in the first place? Why or why not?
    No. They were wrong, good for him for standing up against that decision!
    I believe half of the things I say and say half of the things I believe.

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    re: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

    Now ya see I would say the alternative prospective is not having GAWD drug into everything, especially in the South.

    The separation some decry as not in the Constitution is, just not the way some would like. religious freedom doesn't mean a free for all where any public display is fine. It is a Individual Right to practice your Faith, not the ability to practice it for us. (that your rights end at my nose thing) that makes public gatherings a separate issue.

    As someone above mentioned just how upset would the Christians here be if a Muslim Student read from the Quran?

    One small detail often overlooked when addressing the issues involving schools/districts/rules is minor children in the 'care' of the school system don't have the same 'rights' as adults outside the school system. I do believe even 18 year old high school students do not have the same rights 18 year old college students have.

    just a for instance, in College a parent can't receive the 18 year old's transcript unless the student agrees, not so in high School. The Privacy laws are different.

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    re: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

    Quote Originally Posted by Risky Thicket View Post
    If the valedictorian in South Carolina had prayed a Muslim prayer instead, what do you honestly think the reaction would have been?
    The same from a different group. The point is that neither a Muslim prayer or a Christian prayer or any other religious prayer is offensive. It's an intelligent, hard-working senior in high school having his/her moment to talk about his/her life, beliefs, influences,...whatever. Don't like it, don't believe it, don't live it? -- so what?


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