View Poll Results: Should the school have banned the reading of the prayer by the student?

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Thread: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

  1. #171
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    re: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

    Quote Originally Posted by Rainman05 View Post
    It is his valedictorian speech. It's his time. He can say whatever he wants. The kid finished highschool top of his class and he will have a bright future if he keeps up the good work. The fact that he is religious was a bonus to him and he has no given thanks to what he believed helped him through -> i.e. his faith.

    Again. His speech. he has the right to say whatever he wants. Praying isn't hate speech.

    Then again, Jesus did warn us of people who pray in public for all to see. they aren't bad people... just prideful people who want to appear modest.
    No, he doesn't. He's at a public function organized and controlled by the school. He is underneath their authority. He doesn't get to say whatever he wants.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

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    re: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

    Quote Originally Posted by Geoist View Post
    Why do students get freedom of speech but teachers don't?
    Students have that sort of authority, but they have different expectations in comparison to educators. Educators are representatives of the public school district, a state entity. They have to, generally speaking, refrain from such speech.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

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    re: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

    Quote Originally Posted by Monserrat View Post
    I'm not claiming 'majority', I'm not sure what that even means but you're the one who thought it was an issue and I responded accordingly, I don't think it's an issue. It's just a fact that if you are located in an area where the local culture includes a heavily christian population then you're probably going to run into people of that religion and it's going to be a part of their day to day lives. It's just common sense and to tell anyone that they can't openly display a large part of their lives that's also relevant to a lot of people and hurting no one is just ridiculous.

    Who's balking at a Muslim reading? There was no Muslim reading at that event, it's just an imaginary scenario you created where you seemingly wanted us to speculate over how people might react. It's irrelevant since it's not the issue here and it never happened.

    This isn't a few years ago and no one was speaking about race mixing, the lords prayer doesn't hurt anyone it doesn't affect any of their rights so your comparison is flawed, stop trying to interject racial inequality here it's not the issue and it has nothing to do with that one kid saying a prayer.

    Who's a martyr? Again, you're bringing up a non-issue. The Valedictorian wanted to say a prayer the school was wrong to ban him in the first place, he said it anyways. No ones being martyred here I'm just advocating for common sense and for people to not turn stupid and start crying every time someone mentions some aspect of their religion.
    Ummm you're the one claiming majority culture to justify defying the school district rule. When asked about a Muslim doing the same thing you deflect with 'it aint happened so can't say' crap like a politician. You seem unwilling to see the 'large part of their lives' isn't something they do non stop, does this kid stop others in the hall to speak the Gospel? Does he stop people on the street to share the Word? It also isn't something they need to do at a public venue that isn't there to say grace. I don't have a problem with thanking Gawd, but a prayer was specifically ruled on and ruled out.

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    re: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    When they leave the school, they're free to say anything they like.
    There are limitations to this as well.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

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    re: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    No, he doesn't. He's at a public function organized and controlled by the school. He is underneath their authority. He doesn't get to say whatever he wants.
    No, he's really not, especially if the ceremony is held off school grounds and outside school hours. School authority at that point is largely illusory.

    I've seen near entire student bodies walk out on administrators during graduation flipping him off all the way and the administrator can do nothing about it. They all still received their diplomas in the mail.

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    re: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

    Quote Originally Posted by davidtaylorjr View Post
    Liberty High valedictorian's speech causes stir - FOX Carolina 21

    Do you think the school was right to ban this in the first place? Why or why not?
    I don't think that anyone should really be denied. I guess they can claim captive audience, but it's not like listening to someone pray hurts anyone. Of course, you open that up and you open the other side as well, it's a two way street and someone may choose to say something like "As we reach towards our tomorrow we must acknowledge that no magic pixy fairy guides our path; it is by our strength and our determination that we make our path" or whatever. So if you're ok with someone being able to pray at these events, you have to be ok with the opposite.

    I happen to not care, both should be allowed, but school's have a lot of zero tolerance BS that brings everything down to some sanitized for our protection level of censorship. Mostly because people on either side can't seem to stop bitching. Stick your nose in other's business and soon YOUR business is public concern.
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    re: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    No, he's really not, especially if the ceremony is held off school grounds and outside school hours. School authority at that point is largely illusory.

    I've seen near entire student bodies walk out on administrators during graduation flipping him off all the way and the administrator can do nothing about it. They all still received their diplomas in the mail.
    They can cut off the speech when it approaches an unaccepted direction at the function.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

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    re: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

    Quote Originally Posted by davidtaylorjr View Post
    It's not a member situation. This is a state-run school, making a rule about free speech and limiting it. That is a violation of the Constitution.
    State run schools censor things all the time.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    re: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

    Are valedictorians and salutatorians permitted to make religious remarks as a part of their speeches?

    Yes, although such remarks must be “non-proselytizing” and “non-sectarian” in some jurisdictions.
    When a school selects a student to speak at graduation through neutral, even-handed criteria (e.g., valedictorians or salutatorians selected to speak due to their grade point averages), and the student is given primary control of the content of the speech, such expression should not be limited due to its religious content. One Guideline issued by the U.S. Department of Education in 2003 that directly deals with this issue is entitled “Prayer at Graduation.”

    School officials may not mandate or organize prayer at graduation or select speakers for such events in a manner that favors religious speech such as prayer. Where students or other private graduation speakers are selected on the basis of genuinely neutral, evenhanded criteria and retain primary control over the content of their expression, however, that expression is not attributable to the school and therefore may not be restricted because of its religious (or anti-religious) content. To avoid any mistaken perception that a school endorses student or other private speech that is not in fact attributable to the school, school officials may make appropriate, neutral disclaimers to clarify that such speech (whether religious or nonreligious) is the speaker’s and not the school’s.

    Id. (emphasis added). Thus, valedictorians and salutatorians should be able to include religious content in their speeches, at least where they “retain primary control over the content of their expression,” because they are selected on the basis of neutral criteria.

    The key question regarding speeches provided by valedictorians and salutatorians at graduations is whether such expression would be viewed as bearing the approval of the school and, if so, whether regulations of such expression are required to be viewpoint neutral.1 In the absence of a controlling opinion on these issues in a particular jurisdiction, graduation speeches by valedictorians and salutatorians should be reasonably understood as the student’s own expression rather than speech controlled or sponsored by the school. A reasonable person in attendance at a graduation ceremony understands that valedictorians and salutatorians are selected due to academic criteria and their remarks typically reflect their own views. Valedictorians and salutatorians should be able to share how their faith has impacted their lives without fear of censorship by school officials.
    Here's the SCOTUS determination on this

  10. #180
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    re: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

    Quote Originally Posted by notquiteright View Post
    Ummm you're the one claiming majority culture to justify defying the school district rule. When asked about a Muslim doing the same thing you deflect with 'it aint happened so can't say' crap like a politician. You seem unwilling to see the 'large part of their lives' isn't something they do non stop, does this kid stop others in the hall to speak the Gospel? Does he stop people on the street to share the Word? It also isn't something they need to do at a public venue that isn't there to say grace. I don't have a problem with thanking Gawd, but a prayer was specifically ruled on and ruled out.
    Nope. I didn't, the school made that rule they have every right to even though it was a stupid ill thought out decision. I'm just saying it's not so shocking for a christian in a christian majority culture to recite a run of the mill average christian prayer that doesn't hurt anyone. It makes perfect sense within the confines of that culture.

    I didn't deflect over the Muslim thing I actually engaged in your imaginary scenario even though it's not the issue here and all I or anyone else for that matter could provide is idle speculation, I think it would be less appropriate for a Muslim recitation of the Quran to be given in a highly christian culture as opposed to where I live which is sort of gathering place for multiple cultures and religion.

    He didn't have to say a prayer in his farewell address to his fellow classmates but he did, he did what he thought was right and stood up against a stupid and ridiculous decision made by the school to restrict his speech.

    I've never seen God spelled G-a-w-d, are you trying to be obnoxious there or is it just a way certain people spell it? I don't know I'm just asking mind you. Better to ask then assume one way or the other right?
    I believe half of the things I say and say half of the things I believe.

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