View Poll Results: Should the school have banned the reading of the prayer by the student?

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Thread: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

  1. #161
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    re: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

    Went to one graduation where the salutatorian got half way through singing Do You Like Boobs Alot before they cut his mic. Nothing happenned to him either, and the audience did cheer.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NmI5Mh76D5w

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    re: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

    Quote Originally Posted by Monserrat View Post
    Umm. No it's absolutely not like the Jim Crow laws they discriminated against other people and led to inferior conditions for other people who most likely were actually the majority population in many areas (there were and still are large concentrations of african americans in the southern US that sometimes outnumber 'white' populations).

    Making a culturally appropriate speech is not discrimination now is it nor does it lead to inferior conditions for a large group of people

    The point here is that his prayer hurt no one, it's not against the laws of this nation to simply say a prayer out loud, the school was wrong for telling him not to do it. So good for him for standing against that overly sensitive political bull**** and doing it anyways.
    Well I can see how you would want to peel the onion and first claim majority and thats ok but then majority and that's not ok. The severity isn't the issue, the over arching philosophy is. In most of the South blacks are a minority, they are a majority only in areas they have been more or less segregated into. I remember from my youth talk of the 'darkie' towns. Here in Oklahoma some towns are still majority black as they were set asides for former slaves to live in. (separate but unequal)

    You want to make a pretend 'liberal' to argue against, i would be as much against a student using the Quran as this student and a prayer. Your 'reason' for having a Christian Prayer but balking at a Muslim reading is flawed, we either have religious freedom for all or what is it? If this honor student was Indian and wanted to say a few words in Hindu or a Vietnamese kid and say a short Buddhist prayer then that should be as acceptable to you as a Christian one- dominant culture be damned!

    A few years ago a culturally appropriate speech against race mixing was 'ok' by the majority but not 'by law'. That the young person went ahead again isn't the issue, I've been of the mind if he knows what he is doing is not approved but does it anyway fine, but he owns whatever the consequence may or maynot be.

    it doesn't seem brave to be but more 'martyr' crap.

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    re: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

    Quote Originally Posted by Risky Thicket View Post
    And if the hard-working senior talked about how being a Wiccan had changed his life and allowed him to realize his full potential and finishing that he asked everyone to join him in a Wiccan prayer you'd be all for that and most supportive?
    I wouldn't join in on the prayer. Other than that - who cares?


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    re: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    Went to one graduation where the salutatorian got half way through singing Do You Like Boobs Alot before they cut his mic. Nothing happenned to him either, and the audience did cheer.

    Boobs A Lot - The Holy Modal Rounders - YouTube
    What a horrible cover of a classic Fugs song, which is odd since Steve Weber was in both bands...
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

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    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    re: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

    no state sanction of the prayer

    no compulsory attendance

    nothing preventing the audience from leaving

    would not be surprised if this was the kid's first act of defiance against authority (tho he likely justified it as being acceptable in the eyes of the highest authority, for whom the prayer was intended)

    a whole lot of nothing here

    if it is determined that the school cooperated and winked at his invocation, then bust the participating school officials

    otherwise, nothing to see here, folks

    and that will be true also if the next such event features the valedictorian espousing the belief of wicca, voodoo, santeria or some other pagan belief ... then watch the 'school prayer is ok' crowd piss and moan about it
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
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    re: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

    Quote Originally Posted by Geoist View Post
    The point is the student did not have a RIGHT to say whatever he wanted. If a racist speech was submitted you can bet the school would not have approved nor allowed him to take the stage. Would such an action violate his 1st Amendment rights? Absolutely not.
    Why not? The student has free speech just like everyone else. They had as much of a RIGHT to say what they said as a racist has to say what they say. You're confusing what you WISH they'd say with what they have a RIGHT to say.

    I dont think any school needs to do such a thing. Every once in a while you will get a dishonest valedictorian, oh well. But to pass this off as a 1st Amendment issue is silly.
    It is a 1st Amendment issue. The valedictorian did not violate it. They had a right to say what they said, whether you or anyone else likes it or not.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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    re: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

    Quote Originally Posted by Geoist View Post
    Then a Muslim teacher should be able to preach to his/her students that Allah is the one true God?
    Nope, a teacher, while doing their job, is speaking for the state and are therefore not able to profess religious beliefs or promote one religion above another. The valedictorian in this case does not work for the school. This seems to be where you're getting hung up.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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    re: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

    Quote Originally Posted by Geoist View Post
    Why do students get freedom of speech but teachers don't?
    Not while acting as a spokesman for the state, they don't. When they leave the school, they're free to say anything they like.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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    re: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

    Quote Originally Posted by notquiteright View Post
    Well I can see how you would want to peel the onion and first claim majority and thats ok but then majority and that's not ok. The severity isn't the issue, the over arching philosophy is. In most of the South blacks are a minority, they are a majority only in areas they have been more or less segregated into. I remember from my youth talk of the 'darkie' towns. Here in Oklahoma some towns are still majority black as they were set asides for former slaves to live in. (separate but unequal)

    You want to make a pretend 'liberal' to argue against, i would be as much against a student using the Quran as this student and a prayer. Your 'reason' for having a Christian Prayer but balking at a Muslim reading is flawed, we either have religious freedom for all or what is it? If this honor student was Indian and wanted to say a few words in Hindu or a Vietnamese kid and say a short Buddhist prayer then that should be as acceptable to you as a Christian one- dominant culture be damned!

    A few years ago a culturally appropriate speech against race mixing was 'ok' by the majority but not 'by law'. That the young person went ahead again isn't the issue, I've been of the mind if he knows what he is doing is not approved but does it anyway fine, but he owns whatever the consequence may or maynot be.

    it doesn't seem brave to be but more 'martyr' crap.
    I'm not claiming 'majority', I'm not sure what that even means but you're the one who thought it was an issue and I responded accordingly, I don't think it's an issue. It's just a fact that if you are located in an area where the local culture includes a heavily christian population then you're probably going to run into people of that religion and it's going to be a part of their day to day lives. It's just common sense and to tell anyone that they can't openly display a large part of their lives that's also relevant to a lot of people and hurting no one is just ridiculous.

    Who's balking at a Muslim reading? There was no Muslim reading at that event, it's just an imaginary scenario you created where you seemingly wanted us to speculate over how people might react. It's irrelevant since it's not the issue here and it never happened.

    This isn't a few years ago and no one was speaking about race mixing, the lords prayer doesn't hurt anyone it doesn't affect any of their rights so your comparison is flawed, stop trying to interject racial inequality here it's not the issue and it has nothing to do with that one kid saying a prayer.

    Who's a martyr? Again, you're bringing up a non-issue. The Valedictorian wanted to say a prayer the school was wrong to ban him in the first place, he said it anyways. No ones being martyred here I'm just advocating for common sense and for people to not turn stupid and start crying every time someone mentions some aspect of their religion.
    I believe half of the things I say and say half of the things I believe.

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    re: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    What a horrible cover of a classic Fugs song, which is odd since Steve Weber was in both bands...
    Thanks! Never realized the Fugs was responsible for that song. Same Fugs who did ****in' A CIA back in the 70s?

    EDIT: Most times I'm okay with the auto censor, but in this case it's just ridiculous, that's the name of the song. Frackin' A CIA then.

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