View Poll Results: Should the school have banned the reading of the prayer by the student?

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Thread: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

  1. #141
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    re: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    I think it would be the same issue. What is the school really going to do about it?
    The point is the student did not have a RIGHT to say whatever he wanted. If a racist speech was submitted you can bet the school would not have approved nor allowed him to take the stage. Would such an action violate his 1st Amendment rights? Absolutely not.


    If they are really concerned that they can't control their students on the podium, maybe they ought to do away with the practice of having a valedictorian make a speech.
    I dont think any school needs to do such a thing. Every once in a while you will get a dishonest valedictorian, oh well. But to pass this off as a 1st Amendment issue is silly.
    "Men did not make the earth ... it is the value of the improvement only, and not the earth itself, that is individual property... Every proprietor owes to the community a ground rent for the land which he holds." -- Thomas Paine, Agrarian Justice
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    re: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

    The way I see it a public government funded school should have no say is stamping out or silencing religion. As a government entity free speech and freedom of religion should be respected completely. If it's a private institution I can see where this would be allowed.

    A student with religious beliefs should be allowed to pray or have a religious tone in their graduation speech. I think the government would be overstepping "church and state" boundaries to deprive someone of their ability to thank God, pray, or something else during a speech on government public land. Part of the separation is that the government must separate itself from your beliefs, speech, and views and cannot stop you from speaking or praying or anything else of that nature. It should not mean that it violates the constitution to allow an individual within the institution from exercising their faith or incorporating their own beliefs into a speech. So long as the stance of the school is not endorsing anything then it should be permissible.

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    re: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    So now that he has no constitutional protections what should be done to him?
    Why do you assume I think something should be done to him? Do I think what he did was right? No. Do I think he should be punished/prosecuted? Of course not. The world is not as black and white as some of you conservatives like to make it out to be.
    "Men did not make the earth ... it is the value of the improvement only, and not the earth itself, that is individual property... Every proprietor owes to the community a ground rent for the land which he holds." -- Thomas Paine, Agrarian Justice
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    re: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    The way I see it a public government funded school should have no say is stamping out or silencing religion. As a government entity free speech and freedom of religion should be respected completely.
    Then a Muslim teacher should be able to preach to his/her students that Allah is the one true God?
    "Men did not make the earth ... it is the value of the improvement only, and not the earth itself, that is individual property... Every proprietor owes to the community a ground rent for the land which he holds." -- Thomas Paine, Agrarian Justice
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    re: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

    Quote Originally Posted by Geoist View Post
    Then a Muslim teacher should be able to preach to his/her students that Allah is the one true God?
    No, because that would be the public institution endorsing a belief and respecting a belief. I think a Muslim teacher should be allowed to pray to Allah, share their religious beliefs and even share their belief that Allah is the one true God but they shouldn't be allowed to teach that as fact in the classroom. Neither should a Christian, Jew, or atheist do so. I think many want to interpret "freedom of religion" as "freedom from religion." This should not be the case.

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    re: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

    Quote Originally Posted by Geoist View Post
    Then a Muslim teacher should be able to preach to his/her students that Allah is the one true God?
    No, I think his point was that a teacher shouldn't teach it but a student should still be able to talk about it and even put it in a speech. Seems reasonable to me.

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    re: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

    Quote Originally Posted by Geoist View Post
    Evidence?
    Meh, do a search. Here's one indication. The districts I've taught in, the high schools don't have the space for all the students AND all the guests that wish to attend. Tickets for seating are sold and the students run car washes and such to pay for the venue.

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    re: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    But they shouldn't be allowed to teach that as fact.
    If they are not allowed to teach it as "fact" (whatever that means) then they don't have complete freedom of speech at the school.
    "Men did not make the earth ... it is the value of the improvement only, and not the earth itself, that is individual property... Every proprietor owes to the community a ground rent for the land which he holds." -- Thomas Paine, Agrarian Justice
    http://www.wealthandwant.com/

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    re: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    The way I see it a public government funded school should have no say is stamping out or silencing religion. As a government entity free speech and freedom of religion should be respected completely. If it's a private institution I can see where this would be allowed.

    A student with religious beliefs should be allowed to pray or have a religious tone in their graduation speech. I think the government would be overstepping "church and state" boundaries to deprive someone of their ability to thank God, pray, or something else during a speech on government public land. Part of the separation is that the government must separate itself from your beliefs, speech, and views and cannot stop you from speaking or praying or anything else of that nature. It should not mean that it violates the constitution to allow an individual within the institution from exercising their faith or incorporating their own beliefs into a speech. So long as the stance of the school is not endorsing anything then it should be permissible.
    Public schools cannot and should not ban prayer. The difference between praying, and a publicly led prayer in the form of an invocation is very large.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

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    re: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    No, I think his point was that a teacher shouldn't teach it but a student should still be able to talk about it and even put it in a speech. Seems reasonable to me.
    Why do students get freedom of speech but teachers don't?
    "Men did not make the earth ... it is the value of the improvement only, and not the earth itself, that is individual property... Every proprietor owes to the community a ground rent for the land which he holds." -- Thomas Paine, Agrarian Justice
    http://www.wealthandwant.com/

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