View Poll Results: Should the school have banned the reading of the prayer by the student?

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Thread: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

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    Re: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

    Quote Originally Posted by AlabamaPaul View Post
    What error was made? Is free speech now frowned upon depending on where it is located?
    The error in good judgement came when the valedictorian decided to take an opportunity that was intended for one thing and use it to push their idiotic religious delusions on people who were not sitting in the audience for that purpose. He was free to do it, he was an idiot for actually doing it.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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    Re: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    The error in good judgement came when the valedictorian decided to take an opportunity that was intended for one thing and use it to push their idiotic religious delusions on people who were not sitting in the audience for that purpose. He was free to do it, he was an idiot for actually doing it.
    The one thing for which his presence and speech was intended was to address his class, and that is exactly what he did. That there was an error in judgement is only in your opinion...
    I don't often change my signature, but this was just too over the top to let anyone forget with what this country is up against...
    Quote Originally Posted by James D Hill View Post
    I am for gay marriage because it ticks off Jesus freaks and social conservatives. Gays are also good voters because the vote for my side so I fight next to them.

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    Re: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

    Quote Originally Posted by AlabamaPaul View Post
    The one thing for which his presence and speech was intended was to address his class, and that is exactly what he did. That there was an error in judgement is only in your opinion...
    And if he had gotten up there and given a different speech, one that advocated another religion, or that advocated racial violence or sexism or whatever, I'm sure you would have considered that an error in judgement.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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    Re: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    And if he had gotten up there and given a different speech, one that advocated another religion, or that advocated racial violence or sexism or whatever, I'm sure you would have considered that an error in judgement.
    Why do you presume to know how I might react? An invited speaker is free to speak as they see fit for his/her audience. Should the audience disagree, there are many actions that would be appropriate...
    I don't often change my signature, but this was just too over the top to let anyone forget with what this country is up against...
    Quote Originally Posted by James D Hill View Post
    I am for gay marriage because it ticks off Jesus freaks and social conservatives. Gays are also good voters because the vote for my side so I fight next to them.

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    Re: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

    Quote Originally Posted by AlabamaPaul View Post
    What error was made? Is free speech now frowned upon depending on where it is located?
    It always has been the case and has been reaffirmed by the Supreme Court on multiple occasions with the most famous one being the decision in Schenck v. United States in 1919 "You can't shout FIRE! in a crowded theatre"

    Until yesterday when a federal judge overturned a 1949 law, Americans could not protest in front of the Supreme Court
    “And I have no doubt that every new example will succeed, as every past one has done, in shewing that religion & Govt will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together.”
    ~ James Madison, letter to Edward Livingston, July 10, 1822

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    Re: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

    Quote Originally Posted by Somerville View Post
    It always has been the case and has been reaffirmed by the Supreme Court on multiple occasions with the most famous one being the decision in Schenck v. United States in 1919 "You can't shout FIRE! in a crowded theatre"

    Until yesterday when a federal judge overturned a 1949 law, Americans could not protest in front of the Supreme Court
    Nothing the valedictorian expressed was inflammatory or would cause anyone to panic...
    I don't often change my signature, but this was just too over the top to let anyone forget with what this country is up against...
    Quote Originally Posted by James D Hill View Post
    I am for gay marriage because it ticks off Jesus freaks and social conservatives. Gays are also good voters because the vote for my side so I fight next to them.

  7. #1147
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    Re: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    And if he had gotten up there and given a different speech, one that advocated another religion, or that advocated racial violence or sexism or whatever, I'm sure you would have considered that an error in judgement.
    Uh well ofcorse, because "forgive us for our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us" is not comparable to racial violence....or violence of any kind.

    Racial violence harms others, while forgiveness does not harm anyone. Logicaly one's opinion would have to be different for each.

    The fact that the Lord's Prayer is a message of peace and not violence or hatrid makes all the difference.
    Last edited by Jerry; 06-13-13 at 06:41 PM.

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    Re: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

    Quote Originally Posted by AlabamaPaul View Post
    Why do you presume to know how I might react? An invited speaker is free to speak as they see fit for his/her audience. Should the audience disagree, there are many actions that would be appropriate...
    No, invited speakers are hired and contracted to give a specific type of speech, for which they are paid for their time. If an invited speaker arrived at the local speaker's association, tasked with giving a talk on subject A and instead gave a talk on subject B, they'd have every right to be pissed off, to refuse to pay him and, perhaps to see him in court. Granted, this is a different situation, but there are still expectations for what he will do when he gets in front of the podium.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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    Re: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Uh well ofcorse, because "forgive us for our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us" is not comparable to racial violence....or violence of any kind.

    Racial violence harms others, while forgiveness does not harm anyone. Logicaly one's opinion would have to be different for each.

    Something tells me you need to read the rest of the Bible.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

    Blog me! YouTube me! VidMe me!

  10. #1150
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    Re: Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    No, invited speakers are hired and contracted to give a specific type of speech, for which they are paid for their time. If an invited speaker arrived at the local speaker's association, tasked with giving a talk on subject A and instead gave a talk on subject B, they'd have every right to be pissed off, to refuse to pay him and, perhaps to see him in court. Granted, this is a different situation, but there are still expectations for what he will do when he gets in front of the podium.
    What is expected of a valedictorian other than addressing his/her classmates? Most speakers "hired" for an event are well vetted and paid in advance as a part of the contract...
    I don't often change my signature, but this was just too over the top to let anyone forget with what this country is up against...
    Quote Originally Posted by James D Hill View Post
    I am for gay marriage because it ticks off Jesus freaks and social conservatives. Gays are also good voters because the vote for my side so I fight next to them.

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