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Bradley Manning: Patriotic Whistleblower or Traitor? [W:64]

Is Bradley Manning a Whistleblower or Traitor?


  • Total voters
    15
Re: Bradley Manning: Patriotic Whistleblower or Traitor?

No but at 250,000+ documents I have a very difficult time believing he read just one word from each.

Granted, which is a big reason why I am not going to pass judgment that his intentions were completely righteous. But I still think what he did pales in comparison to the crimes that many of those documents mention.
 
Re: Bradley Manning: Patriotic Whistleblower or Traitor?

Granted, which is a big reason why I am not going to pass judgment that his intentions were completely righteous. But I still think what he did pales in comparison to the crimes that many of those documents mention.

But it's not like he committed his crime to expose other crimes.
 
Re: Bradley Manning: Patriotic Whistleblower or Traitor?

It is kinda nice to know that the law of the land is something he considers worth following isn't it?

Certainly is. Where is the outrage over the murders of hundreds/thousands of Afghans/Iraqis who were murdered by the US military?

I think we would also agree that soldiers guilty of murdering any one and found guilty of such in court should likewise be punished to the full extent of the law.
If a member of the military has evidence of a criminal act, they can safely take action as outlined here: 10 USC § 1034 - Protected communications; prohibition of retaliatory personnel actions | Title 10 - Armed Forces | U.S. Code | LII / Legal Information Institute . They are protected then from reprisals. Note that what Manning did is completely different. Mass release of confidential documents, or even the release of any confidential document to the media is not protected and is a criminal act. There is good reason for this.

I am not denying that Manning went about this the wrong way, or that his intentions were totally noble. I think there are actions that should be taken but I do not go as far as to call him a traitor or think he should be executed/imprisoned for life. But that is besides the point. We get more outraged over a man releasing document detailing crimes than the actual crimes (murders) themselves. Do you not see how messed up that is?
 
Re: Bradley Manning: Patriotic Whistleblower or Traitor?

Did I hurt your feelings ?
Be a man.

Seems like you are more offended by how people choose to live their own lives than anyone could be of your comments. Perhaps you should take your own advice.
 
Re: Bradley Manning: Patriotic Whistleblower or Traitor?

But it's not like he committed his crime to expose other crimes.

I don't know his intentions. Maybe. Maybe not. I just think it is outrageous people get more passionately angry over Manning's crime over the military's crimes.
 
Re: Bradley Manning: Patriotic Whistleblower or Traitor?

I don't know his intentions. Maybe. Maybe not. I just think it is outrageous people get more passionately angry over Manning's crime over the military's crimes.

I get the impression this is more about you being anti-military than anything else.
 
Re: Bradley Manning: Patriotic Whistleblower or Traitor?

I get the impression this is more about you being anti-military than anything else.

I am anti-murder. I don't care who does it.
 
Re: Bradley Manning: Patriotic Whistleblower or Traitor?

I'd like to stay largely out of this conversation, but fwiw I think the Collateral Murder video was very important, I'm glad people got to see it, and I think those involved in decrypting it (which manning isn't even alleged to have done) should be damn proud of themselves.

Collateral Murder - Wikileaks - Iraq - YouTube

I watched the entire video. What is it that the Americans are alleged to have done wrong? It looked good to me.

I've never heard of friendly journalists being embedded with enemy troops before. Did the enemy think that hiding among journalists and children would protect them or is the truth that those journalists are NOT friendly to us, regardless of what they would have us believe?

The American soldiers seemed to disregard their own safety to carry those children as fast as they could, as opposed to the enemy who brought children right into the danger zone.

Our guys did a good job. I just wish they were home with us. Nobody loves children more than Americans.
 
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Re: Bradley Manning: Patriotic Whistleblower or Traitor?

I watched the entire video. What is it that the Americans are alleged to have done wrong? It looked good to me.
The main issue was that they lied about it after, specifically they lied to Reuters about how the journalists died. The official report from Lieutenant Colonel Scott Bleichwehl on the incident stated "There is no question that coalition forces were clearly engaged in combat operations against a hostile force". It simply isn't true. They were begging for permission to open fire on people who were standing around chatting, and a car with kids and a doctor.

Anyway, I'm going to stay out of this. I appreciate that everyone is entitled to their own opinion on it, and simply wanted to express mine.
 
Re: Bradley Manning: Patriotic Whistleblower or Traitor?

Seems like you are more offended by how people choose to live their own lives than anyone could be of your comments. Perhaps you should take your own advice.

I can care less how people choose to live their own lives as long as they don't force their life style upon me or force me to openly acknowledge my approval of their life style. That's been the problem that many have.

You don't see me demanding special protections or special privileges or demanding that society except my life style do you ?
 
Re: Bradley Manning: Patriotic Whistleblower or Traitor?

The main issue was that they lied about it after, specifically they lied to Reuters about how the journalists died. The official report from Lieutenant Colonel Scott Bleichwehl on the incident stated "There is no question that coalition forces were clearly engaged in combat operations against a hostile force". It simply isn't true. They were begging for permission to open fire on people who were standing around chatting, and a car with kids and a doctor.

Anyway, I'm going to stay out of this. I appreciate that everyone is entitled to their own opinion on it, and simply wanted to express mine.

Again, people do not simply "stand around and chat" within mere feet of a heavily armed military convoy in the middle of hostile territory. It simply doesn't happen.

The fact that children had to be involved in the incident was unfortunate, but the apache crew had no way of knowing that there were children in the van before they opened fire. The idiotic driver of the vehicle in question should never have charged into such an obvious kill zone with children on board in the first place.

I frankly agree with Ray here. The general behavior exhibited by the people in that video makes it very hard to believe that the reporters the US Military killed were completely innocent in their intentions. Rational non-hostile human beings simply do not have a minivan on stand-by waiting to charge into a hail of bullets at breakneck speed to evacuate casualties.
 
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Re: Bradley Manning: Patriotic Whistleblower or Traitor?

Certainly is. Where is the outrage over the murders of hundreds/thousands of Afghans/Iraqis who were murdered by the US military?

I will not presume to speak for cpwill, but I know in my case that soldiers who commit atrocities and murder are worthy of condemnation.

I am not denying that Manning went about this the wrong way, or that his intentions were totally noble. I think there are actions that should be taken but I do not go as far as to call him a traitor or think he should be executed/imprisoned for life. But that is besides the point. We get more outraged over a man releasing document detailing crimes than the actual crimes (murders) themselves. Do you not see how messed up that is?

Whether he is a "traitor" or not is debatable, but a case could certainly be made for it. Life imprisonment is the most likely and to my mind proper outcome. He committed a major crime. It is entirely separate from any other crimes however, and trying to connect other crimes to this is faulty logic.
 
Re: Bradley Manning: Patriotic Whistleblower or Traitor?

If he had taken the film footage that he believed proof of criminal conduct to the chain of command, believed that it had been covered up then released only that footage to the media he could claim to be a Whistleblower.

Despite what Manning's defense now claims, the evidence shows that he downloaded hundreds of thousands of documents indiscriminately over a period of weeks and/or months, forwarding them to Wiki Leaks without having the slightest idea of what they contained. That's treason, imo, although I realize it does not rise to the strict legal aspects of treason, since the USA was not technically at war with Wiki Leaks at the time.

I'll always consider him a traitor, and hope that if he is convicted he serves many, many years in prison for what he has done.
 
Re: Bradley Manning: Patriotic Whistleblower or Traitor?

Moderator's Warning:
Please keep it civil, on topic and off each other.
 
Re: Bradley Manning: Patriotic Whistleblower or Traitor?

Traitor. Furthermore, Wikileaks always deserves criticism.
 
Re: Bradley Manning: Patriotic Whistleblower or Traitor?

Again, people do not simply "stand around and chat" within mere feet of a heavily armed military convoy in the middle of hostile territory. It simply doesn't happen.

The fact that children had to be involved in the incident was unfortunate, but the apache crew had no way of knowing that there were children in the van before they opened fire. The idiotic driver of the vehicle in question should never have charged into such an obvious kill zone with children on board in the first place.

I frankly agree with Ray here. The general behavior exhibited by the people in that video makes it very hard to believe that the reporters the US Military killed were completely innocent in their intentions. Rational non-hostile human beings simply do not have a minivan on stand-by waiting to charge into a hail of bullets at breakneck speed to evacuate casualties.


Your "opinion" requires that you are a believer that the Apache crew made a correct decision. I insist that they were required by simple human rights requirements to have more clearly identified their potential targets. As I said, they were in a helicopter with excellent speed and maneuverability and must have been fully aware that civilians live in the populated area. If they weren't sure the observed civilians were armed, human rights common sense requires that a closer look be taken. It ain't rocket science and that is why the USA wanted to classify the video. They wanted to hide it. They wanted to use the classification system for concealing an embarrassment or a crime. I sympathize with the soldiers in Iraq, but am ashamed of our government's conduct form start to finish in that war. A soldier just does his job, usually. In this case, they screwed up and innocents died. I don't think I would personally care for Manning, but he was an Intelligence Analyst and had access to plenty of real secrets or he wouldn't have had that specialty rating. No weapons info released. No security info released. No military plans released. Just mostly lies and embarrassments. WMD lies and cover ups followed up by continuous lies and cover ups. Just more of the same. If you don't want to have to defend lies, then vote out the liars, you know, start at the source.
 
Re: Bradley Manning: Patriotic Whistleblower or Traitor?

I can care less how people choose to live their own lives as long as they don't force their life style upon me or force me to openly acknowledge my approval of their life style. That's been the problem that many have.

You don't see me demanding special protections or special privileges or demanding that society except my life style do you ?

No one is forcing anything on you. :roll:
 
Re: Bradley Manning: Patriotic Whistleblower or Traitor?

Whether he is a "traitor" or not is debatable, but a case could certainly be made for it. Life imprisonment is the most likely and to my mind proper outcome. He committed a major crime. It is entirely separate from any other crimes however, and trying to connect other crimes to this is faulty logic.

While I agree he probably committed a crime, I disagree that the crime was treason. He gave the information to Wikileaks, not Al Qaeda.
 
Re: Bradley Manning: Patriotic Whistleblower or Traitor?

Traitor. Furthermore, Wikileaks always deserves criticism.

We are not at war with Wikileaks.
 
Re: Bradley Manning: Patriotic Whistleblower or Traitor?

While I agree he probably committed a crime, I disagree that the crime was treason. He gave the information to Wikileaks, not Al Qaeda.

By giving information to Wikileaks, he gave it to Al Qaeda.

Whether he can be convicted of treason or not, I am not going to guess. I can certainly see an argument that makes that case. Without actually being at the trial and hearing the presentation of evidence and the exact law, I cannot make a proper informed decision on it. I do believe he will end up with life in jail, so whether they actually call his crime treason or whatever does not significantly matter to me. He is not going to be executed, but he will never go free. I am pretty ok with that.
 
Re: Bradley Manning: Patriotic Whistleblower or Traitor?

It's obvious you don't live on the Left Coast.

So how exactly are people forcing their lifestyle on you on the "left coast"?
 
Re: Bradley Manning: Patriotic Whistleblower or Traitor?

So how exactly are people forcing their lifestyle on you on the "left coast"?

Being told that I must except someones lifestyle or they put a label on me. I believe there are some examples above.

Some people criticize the lifestyle of Hells Angels and reject their lifestyle. (It is a lifestyle just as being a surfer is a lifestyle) Do Angels or PC liberals accuse those who are scared of them and reject their lifestyle of being angelphobes ? Maybe it's Harleyphobes ?

Taking personal responsibility for your own actions and personal security and having a firearm in your home for protecting your family and home is a lifestyle and liberals label these people as gun nuts.

Being a U.S. Marine is a lifestyle and white beard scratching liberals have decided that Marines are no longer allowed to talk like Marines. I suppose next they will decide that earning the right to be called a Marine isn't politically correct and maggots while trying to earn that right of being called a Marine while going through Marine Corps boot camp must be called a Marine even though they haven't earned that right.

Unlike the Army, Navy and Air Force, when an Army recruit shows up for recruit training, he's a soldier, When a Navy recruit shows up at Great Lakes, he's a sailor. When a recruit shows up at Marine Corps boot camp (MCRD) he isn't a Marine, he's regurgitated puke, a maggot a piece of dog crap. For three months he will never be addressed as a Marine until he earns that right. On that day when he graduates he will be awarded the emblem of the Eagle, Globe and Anchor and for the first time be allowed to wear it on his uniform and for the first time will be addressed as a U.S. Marine. There are PC liberals who want to change that 200 year old tradition.

Then there's the individual freedoms that we use to have on the "Left Coast" (California) that are no more. Individual freedoms that we took for granted and one day you find those individual freedoms were taken away by the political left. I can list hundreds of them. From what kind of light bulb I must use in my kitchen, the type of toilet I crap in, the type of gun I can own, what I can carry in the back of my pick-up truck, what hours I can be on a beach. You can't even sleep on 99 % of the beaches on the Left Coast ! You use too.

If it's 32 degrees at night and you want to put a log in the fireplace, you now have to drop a dime or go on the internet to find out if you have permission to put a log in the fireplace. Seems to me, using a fireplace or a wood burning stove to keep warm is a lifestyle.

Now there are liberal legislatures who want cooking pressure cookers to be treated like guns. Background checks, waiting periods and limits on the capacity of the pressure cookers.
 
Re: Bradley Manning: Patriotic Whistleblower or Traitor?

We are not at war with Wikileaks.

No, we aren't. Our government and many other governments around the world are hostile toward them. I side with the government.
 
Re: Bradley Manning: Patriotic Whistleblower or Traitor?

A hero who deserves a medal. Telling the truth and revealing crimes is not a crime, its telling the truth, and telling the truth is not a crime.
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