View Poll Results: Can the Bill of Rights be legally amended with other Amendments?

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  • YES - anything in the Constitution is subject to the Amendment process.

    43 84.31%
  • NO - you cannot amend anything which changes any provision in the Bill of Rights

    8 15.69%
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Thread: Can you legally Amend the Bill of Rights?

  1. #1
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    Can you legally Amend the Bill of Rights?

    Yesterday, I heard an argument that I was not aware of. Basically the individual claimed that one could not legally amend the United States Constitution so that it changed or repealed any of the current Amendments in the first ten - the Bill of Rights.

    Here is Article V of the Constitution which has all the language from that document about the amendment process

    The Congress, whenever two thirds of both Houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose Amendments to this Constitution, or, on the Application of the Legislatures of two thirds of the several States, shall call a Convention for proposing Amendments, which, in either Case, shall be valid to all Intents and Purposes, as Part of this Constitution, when ratified by the Legislatures of three fourths of the several States or by Conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other Mode of Ratification may be proposed by the Congress; Provided that no Amendment which may be made prior to the Year One thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any Manner affect the first and fourth Clauses in the Ninth Section of the first Article; and that no State, without its Consent, shall be deprived of its equal Suffrage in the Senate.


    The specific part of the Constitution in question was the Second Amendment.

    It is my contention that there is nothing in the Constitution which would prohibit any amendment changing the Second - or any other Amendment for that matter. Legally, it could be done.

    It is my position that politically, it would be impossible to do so at this time and there simply is not any political will to do this.

    Putting aside the already mentioned practical political considerations making it impossible to actually get such an amendment passed, is it legally possible to amend the Constitution changing or outright repealing anything contained within it including the Second or any other existing Amendment?
    Last edited by haymarket; 05-31-13 at 08:04 AM.
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    Re: Can you legally Amend the Bill of Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Yesterday, I heard an argument that I was not aware of. Basically the individual claimed that one could not legally amend the United States Constitution so that it changed or repealed any of the current Amendments in the first ten - the Bill of Rights.

    Here is Article V of the Constitution which has all the language from that document about the amendment process

    The Congress, whenever two thirds of both Houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose Amendments to this Constitution, or, on the Application of the Legislatures of two thirds of the several States, shall call a Convention for proposing Amendments, which, in either Case, shall be valid to all Intents and Purposes, as Part of this Constitution, when ratified by the Legislatures of three fourths of the several States or by Conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other Mode of Ratification may be proposed by the Congress; Provided that no Amendment which may be made prior to the Year One thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any Manner affect the first and fourth Clauses in the Ninth Section of the first Article; and that no State, without its Consent, shall be deprived of its equal Suffrage in the Senate.


    The specific part of the Constitution in question was the Second Amendment.

    It is my contention that there is nothing in the Constitution which would prohibit any amendment changing the Second - or any other Amendment for that matter. Legally, it could be done.

    It is my position that politically, it would be impossible to do so at this time and there simply is not any political will to do this.

    Putting aside the already mentioned practical political considerations making it impossible to actually get such an amendment passed, is it legally possible to amend the Constitution changing or outright repealing anything contained within it including the Second or any other existing Amendment?
    You forget that the 2 amendment was said could not be infringed it is the only one that says it could not be infringed all the others are free game to admendment except this one .

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    Re: Can you legally Amend the Bill of Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Un biased View Post
    You forget that the 2 amendment was said could not be infringed it is the only one that says it could not be infringed all the others are free game to admendment except this one .
    But if the right is removed through the legal process of Amendment, there is then nothing to be infringed upon. And what in the Constitution as it applies to the Amendment process would prohibit that? We already changed the specific content of an Amendment before and outright repealed it. One could make the same argument that would have rendered the effort to repeal the 18th impossible legally. One could have argued that any future amendment could not change the language which exists because that existing amendment legally allows for something you are trying to prohibit and thus could not be done. Its a circular argument that is a fallacy.
    Last edited by haymarket; 05-31-13 at 08:12 AM.
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    Re: Can you legally Amend the Bill of Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    But if the right is removed through the legal process of Amendment, there is then nothing to be infringed upon.

    So if the goverment can do that then isent our other rights in total jepordy is that what you want .... so sorry cant talk bad about the goverment thet took that right away . Although that is a verry intresting point and I think you are right but do you really think that would happen . It says it can not be infringed but taken it awat would be infringing that right .

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    Re: Can you legally Amend the Bill of Rights?

    Yes, they can be amended. But amending the Constitution is VERY difficult, as it should be. And amending one of the first 10 would be damn near impossible. Instead those rights will be eroded through more subtle means.

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    Re: Can you legally Amend the Bill of Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarcogito View Post
    Yes, they can be amended. But amending the Constitution is VERY difficult, as it should be. And amending one of the first 10 would be damn near impossible. Instead those rights will be eroded through more subtle means.
    Reminds me when they out lawed alchocol the only part of the constation to be eradicated and that took years to do even though everyone and their mother disliked and objected this and it wasent even in the bill of rights

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    Re: Can you legally Amend the Bill of Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Yesterday, I heard an argument that I was not aware of. Basically the individual claimed that one could not legally amend the United States Constitution so that it changed or repealed any of the current Amendments in the first ten - the Bill of Rights.

    Here is Article V of the Constitution which has all the language from that document about the amendment process

    The Congress, whenever two thirds of both Houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose Amendments to this Constitution, or, on the Application of the Legislatures of two thirds of the several States, shall call a Convention for proposing Amendments, which, in either Case, shall be valid to all Intents and Purposes, as Part of this Constitution, when ratified by the Legislatures of three fourths of the several States or by Conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other Mode of Ratification may be proposed by the Congress; Provided that no Amendment which may be made prior to the Year One thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any Manner affect the first and fourth Clauses in the Ninth Section of the first Article; and that no State, without its Consent, shall be deprived of its equal Suffrage in the Senate.


    The specific part of the Constitution in question was the Second Amendment.

    It is my contention that there is nothing in the Constitution which would prohibit any amendment changing the Second - or any other Amendment for that matter. Legally, it could be done.

    It is my position that politically, it would be impossible to do so at this time and there simply is not any political will to do this.

    Putting aside the already mentioned practical political considerations making it impossible to actually get such an amendment passed, is it legally possible to amend the Constitution changing or outright repealing anything contained within it including the Second or any other existing Amendment?
    The Bill of Rights was added to get enough states to approve the constitution as they wanted guarentees as to not have an over reaching central government. The constitution would have never been approved without them. From what I read the framers and the approving states thought these first ten amendments were set in stone. But most of them have been eroded over time.

    But I suppose they could be changed or deleted through the amendment process as no where in the constitution does it states they can't. Although this would not be part of the original intent by those who wroted, added and approved the constitution way back then.,
    This Reform Party member thinks it is high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first and their political party further down the line. But for way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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    Re: Can you legally Amend the Bill of Rights?

    Any of the amendments can be amended; in fact, the Constitution specifically indicates the only sections that cannot be changed. To date, only the 10th amendment has been informally repealed.

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    Re: Can you legally Amend the Bill of Rights?

    Anything in the Consittution can be Amended if the procedure is followed. Heck they could write a complete new one if desired but I don't think anyone wants to see what that would look like.
    There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences.
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    Re: Can you legally Amend the Bill of Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Un biased View Post
    So if the goverment can do that then isent our other rights in total jepordy is that what you want .... so sorry cant talk bad about the goverment thet took that right away . Although that is a verry intresting point and I think you are right but do you really think that would happen . It says it can not be infringed but taken it awat would be infringing that right .
    No - I do not want that to happen. I do not advocate such an amendment. I would not support such and amendment. I would oppose such an amendment.

    I am only posing the question if it were a legal possibility.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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