View Poll Results: Can the Bill of Rights be legally amended with other Amendments?

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  • YES - anything in the Constitution is subject to the Amendment process.

    43 84.31%
  • NO - you cannot amend anything which changes any provision in the Bill of Rights

    8 15.69%
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Thread: Can you legally Amend the Bill of Rights?

  1. #61
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    Re: Can you legally Amend the Bill of Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    Cite an unbiased and reliable source that differentiates republic and democracy that way v private property rights.


    Which means the States have the power, too, not the federal government alone. That doesn't address a damn thing in relation to Amendments of any kind. The States have to approve any Amendment, just as I've been saying.
    friend, as i have suggested before.... please read the federalist papers which explain the Constitution,.

    federalist 39 states clearly we have republican government, federalist 10 states we do not have democratic government, and federalist 40 states we have a mixed Constitution, where powers are divided between the states and the people.

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    Re: Can you legally Amend the Bill of Rights?

    Honestly, I think we already have amended at least one of the Amendments found in the Bill of Rights with the 14th Amendment. I believe that since 10th Amendment is mainly used as giving powers to the states while the 14th restricts those powers to a large degree then the 14th basically took some of the rights away from the states and gave them to the people, greatly reducing the scope of the 10th Amendment.
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    Re: Can you legally Amend the Bill of Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    i suggest you learn the difference between republican form of government and democratic form first.
    You should look in the mirror and say this. There are many forms of both republic and democracy. Your apparent interpretation is extremely narrow and bias.


    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    in republican forms of government, the people can vote on many things, however they cannot vote on the rights of other people.
    Then we've already violated the republic because most Amendments change the rights of people.



    Where's your unbiased and reliable cite for your unfounded claims? Ignoring what you don't like - AGAIN??? How predictable.
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    Re: Can you legally Amend the Bill of Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Yesterday, I heard an argument that I was not aware of. Basically the individual claimed that one could not legally amend the United States Constitution so that it changed or repealed any of the current Amendments in the first ten - the Bill of Rights.

    Here is Article V of the Constitution which has all the language from that document about the amendment process

    The Congress, whenever two thirds of both Houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose Amendments to this Constitution, or, on the Application of the Legislatures of two thirds of the several States, shall call a Convention for proposing Amendments, which, in either Case, shall be valid to all Intents and Purposes, as Part of this Constitution, when ratified by the Legislatures of three fourths of the several States or by Conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other Mode of Ratification may be proposed by the Congress; Provided that no Amendment which may be made prior to the Year One thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any Manner affect the first and fourth Clauses in the Ninth Section of the first Article; and that no State, without its Consent, shall be deprived of its equal Suffrage in the Senate.


    The specific part of the Constitution in question was the Second Amendment.

    It is my contention that there is nothing in the Constitution which would prohibit any amendment changing the Second - or any other Amendment for that matter. Legally, it could be done.

    It is my position that politically, it would be impossible to do so at this time and there simply is not any political will to do this.

    Putting aside the already mentioned practical political considerations making it impossible to actually get such an amendment passed, is it legally possible to amend the Constitution changing or outright repealing anything contained within it including the Second or any other existing Amendment?



    If enough Americans decide that a law needs to be changed, it will be changed.

  5. #65
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    Re: Can you legally Amend the Bill of Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    A republic means that the people vote for their representatives, and their representatives vote for laws. We are actually a constitutional republic, meaning that those representatives are restricted to a point for what they can and cannot do concerning the laws of our nation as a simple majority when the issue is constitutionally protected. But when we are talking about the Constitution and amending it, it requires more than a simple majority which is why any part of it can be changed when those conditions are met.
    it requires 2/3 of congress and 3/4 of the states..a lot more simple majority.


    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Yes, the Constitution, any part of it, including the Bill of Rights, can be amended as long as the Amendment goes through the proper process.
    the bill of rights was create 2 years after the constitution, and it was to prevent the federal government from usurping the rights of the people, and you going to state that the federal government has the power to create an amendment over them.......wrong.

    the clauses which makeup the bill of rights are declaratory and restrictive to the federal government.............as stated by the bill of rights.

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    Re: Can you legally Amend the Bill of Rights?

    I would have voted yes, but it ignores the prohibition about each state having the same number of Senators.

    Poll Fail.

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    Re: Can you legally Amend the Bill of Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    it requires 2/3 of congress and 3/4 of the states..a lot more simple majority.
    That's exactly what he said, "it requires more than a simple majority which is why any part of it can be changed when those conditions are met."

    Reading comprehension, try it sometime.


    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    the bill of rights was create 2 years after the constitution, and it was to prevent the federal government from usurping the rights of the people, and you going to state that the federal government has the power to create an amendment over them.......wrong.
    The federal government CANNOT "[usurp] the rights of the people". Your argument is false on it's face.
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  8. #68
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    Re: Can you legally Amend the Bill of Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    That's exactly what he said, "it requires more than a simple majority which is why any part of it can be changed when those conditions are met."

    Reading comprehension, try it sometime.


    The federal government CANNOT "[usurp] the rights of the people". Your argument is false on it's face.
    ask yourself this:

    "congress shall make no law" stated in the first amendment.

    this means congress can take no action to overturn the first amendment

    yet you are saying congress can take action and create an amendment.

    i stated the constitution can be changed , the bill of rights cannot becuase they are restrictive to the federal government......and i have stated this many times,...how is it you missed it?

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    Re: Can you legally Amend the Bill of Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Yesterday, I heard an argument that I was not aware of. Basically the individual claimed that one could not legally amend the United States Constitution so that it changed or repealed any of the current Amendments in the first ten - the Bill of Rights.

    Here is Article V of the Constitution which has all the language from that document about the amendment process

    The Congress, whenever two thirds of both Houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose Amendments to this Constitution, or, on the Application of the Legislatures of two thirds of the several States, shall call a Convention for proposing Amendments, which, in either Case, shall be valid to all Intents and Purposes, as Part of this Constitution, when ratified by the Legislatures of three fourths of the several States or by Conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other Mode of Ratification may be proposed by the Congress; Provided that no Amendment which may be made prior to the Year One thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any Manner affect the first and fourth Clauses in the Ninth Section of the first Article; and that no State, without its Consent, shall be deprived of its equal Suffrage in the Senate.


    The specific part of the Constitution in question was the Second Amendment.

    It is my contention that there is nothing in the Constitution which would prohibit any amendment changing the Second - or any other Amendment for that matter. Legally, it could be done.

    It is my position that politically, it would be impossible to do so at this time and there simply is not any political will to do this.

    Putting aside the already mentioned practical political considerations making it impossible to actually get such an amendment passed, is it legally possible to amend the Constitution changing or outright repealing anything contained within it including the Second or any other existing Amendment?
    So you have some kind of government advisory job and you don't even know how the constitution works.

    Outstanding!

  10. #70
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    Re: Can you legally Amend the Bill of Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Honestly, I think we already have amended at least one of the Amendments found in the Bill of Rights with the 14th Amendment. I believe that since 10th Amendment is mainly used as giving powers to the states while the 14th restricts those powers to a large degree then the 14th basically took some of the rights away from the states and gave them to the people, greatly reducing the scope of the 10th Amendment.
    states dont have rights......they have powers...only flesh and blood people have rights.

    so no rights have been taken away under the BOR by amendments.

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