View Poll Results: Can the Bill of Rights be legally amended with other Amendments?

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  • YES - anything in the Constitution is subject to the Amendment process.

    43 84.31%
  • NO - you cannot amend anything which changes any provision in the Bill of Rights

    8 15.69%
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Thread: Can you legally Amend the Bill of Rights?

  1. #51
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    Re: Can you legally Amend the Bill of Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    They can be taken away by a vote of a large enough amount of people. If enough people feel that some group should not be allowed a right, such as speech or religion or guns or even due process, for whatever reason, then they can put it in the Constitution as an Amendment if they have enough support. Prohibition proves this. The right to drink alcohol should have fallen under the "rights to the people or the states" guaranteed by the Constitution. Then enough people took that right away from either the people or the state (whichever you care to say) and prohibited alcohol completely until that Amendment was repealed. During Prohibition though, the people's right to drink alcohol or the states' right to control whether the people could drink alcohol was taken away. Prohibition was not struck down by a SCOTUS decision, but rather repealed through the same process that put it into place.
    wrong, we have a republican form of government, not a democratic form, federalist 39, with a mixed constitution federalist 40.

    rights are not subject to a vote of the people, rights are unalienable, and cannot be taken from you through a vote........that is democracy, and founders hated democracy, and did not create such a form of government.

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    Re: Can you legally Amend the Bill of Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    simple fact.. you cant, and live is denial.

    <snip - redundant/repeat>
    None of which changes the fact that the federal government cannot change the Constitution on it's own. If the Fed wants to change something in the Constitution the States have to approve it, just like the colonies originally approved the Constitution. Nothing is different and nothing has changed in that respect since 1776.
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    Re: Can you legally Amend the Bill of Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    None of which changes the fact that the federal government cannot change the Constitution on it's own. If the Fed wants to change something in the Constitution the States have to approve it, just like the colonies originally approved the Constitution. Nothing is different and nothing has changed in that respect since 1776.
    i said the bill of rights, which was created in 1789 two years after the constitution..cannot be changed or abolished........stated by the founding fathers.


    We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed.

    rights are unalienable ...........if the could be amended or repealed, then they would not be unalienable.



    The Preamble to The Bill of Rights

    Congress of the United States
    begun and held at the City of New-York, on
    Wednesday the fourth of March, one thousand seven hundred and eighty nine.

    THE Conventions of a number of the States, having at the time of their adopting the Constitution, expressed a desire, in order to prevent misconstruction or abuse of its powers, that further declaratory and restrictive clauses should be added: And as extending the ground of public confidence in the Government, will best ensure the beneficent ends of its institution.


    who are the clauses which makeup the bill of rights, established 2 years after the constitution declaratory and restrictive too?...the federal government!

    also read the American founding fathers who state....they cannot be amended or repealed.

    "[You have Rights] antecedent to all earthly governments:
    Rights, that cannot be repealed or restrained by human laws;
    Rights, derived from the Great Legislator of the universe."

    by:John Adams


    Nothing is unchangeable but the inherent and unalienable rights of man.

    by : Thomas Jefferson

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    Re: Can you legally Amend the Bill of Rights?

    The Republican Form of government is one in which the powers of sovereignty are vested in the people and are exercised by the people, either directly, or through representatives chosen by the people, to whom those powers are specially delegated. individuals retain sovereign prerogatives over their private property rights (absolute ownership) of their person, labor and property.


    Unlike the democratic form of government, in which the powers of sovereignty are vested in the whole body of free citizens, individuals do not retain sovereign prerogatives over their private property rights (absolute ownership) of their person, labor and property.

    The U.S. Constitution guarantees a republican form to the states. (See Art.4,Sec.4)

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    Re: Can you legally Amend the Bill of Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kanstantine View Post
    The entire Constitution can be amended. Every letter, every sentence.
    Except for one thing:

    Quote Originally Posted by Article V
    Provided that no Amendment which may be made prior to the Year One thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any Manner affect the first and fourth Clauses in the Ninth Section of the first Article; and that no State, without its Consent, shall be deprived of its equal Suffrage in the Senate.
    Obviously the protections on slavery grandfathered out in 1808 but the rest of Art. V is still in effect.

    No state can be deprived of equal sufferage in the Senate, even by amendment.

    Course, we could always scrap the Constitution in toto and start from scratch, but that's not really "amending" it.
    Last edited by soot; 06-03-13 at 02:21 PM.

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    Re: Can you legally Amend the Bill of Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    i said the bill of rights, which was created in 1789 two years after the constitution..cannot be changed or abolished........stated by the founding fathers.
    As we've discussed more than once, it doesn't matter what the intent of some of the parties of a contract may be, all that counts is the signed document. I'm sorry you don't like this simple fact. You cannot go to the bank after you've signed a loan document and ask where your $1000 rebate is if it's not in the loan contract. It just doesn't work that way.


    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed.

    <snip - another long, redundant and/or off-subject sermon>
    That phrase alone has undergone radical changes since it was first coined. Your argument continues to fail.


    Where is the consent of the governed if the governed can't change things?
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    Re: Can you legally Amend the Bill of Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    wrong, we have a republican form of government, not a democratic form, federalist 39, with a mixed constitution federalist 40.

    rights are not subject to a vote of the people, rights are unalienable, and cannot be taken from you through a vote........that is democracy, and founders hated democracy, and did not create such a form of government.
    A republic means that the people vote for their representatives, and their representatives vote for laws. We are actually a constitutional republic, meaning that those representatives are restricted to a point for what they can and cannot do concerning the laws of our nation as a simple majority when the issue is constitutionally protected. But when we are talking about the Constitution and amending it, it requires more than a simple majority which is why any part of it can be changed when those conditions are met.

    Yes, the Constitution, any part of it, including the Bill of Rights, can be amended as long as the Amendment goes through the proper process.
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    Re: Can you legally Amend the Bill of Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    They can be taken away by a vote of a large enough amount of people. If enough people feel that some group should not be allowed a right, such as speech or religion or guns or even due process, for whatever reason, then they can put it in the Constitution as an Amendment if they have enough support. Prohibition proves this. The right to drink alcohol should have fallen under the "rights to the people or the states" guaranteed by the Constitution. Then enough people took that right away from either the people or the state (whichever you care to say) and prohibited alcohol completely until that Amendment was repealed. During Prohibition though, the people's right to drink alcohol or the states' right to control whether the people could drink alcohol was taken away. Prohibition was not struck down by a SCOTUS decision, but rather repealed through the same process that put it into place.





    What man does, man can undo (Usually.).

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    Re: Can you legally Amend the Bill of Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    The Republican Form of government is one in which the powers of sovereignty are vested in the people and are exercised by the people, either directly, or through representatives chosen by the people, to whom those powers are specially delegated. individuals retain sovereign prerogatives over their private property rights (absolute ownership) of their person, labor and property.

    Unlike the democratic form of government, in which the powers of sovereignty are vested in the whole body of free citizens, individuals do not retain sovereign prerogatives over their private property rights (absolute ownership) of their person, labor and property.
    Cite an unbiased and reliable source that differentiates republic and democracy that way v private property rights.


    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    The U.S. Constitution guarantees a republican form to the states. (See Art.4,Sec.4)
    Which means the States have the power, too, not the federal government alone. That doesn't address a damn thing in relation to Amendments of any kind. The States have to approve any Amendment, just as I've been saying.
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    Re: Can you legally Amend the Bill of Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    As we've discussed more than once, it doesn't matter what the intent of some of the parties of a contract may be, all that counts is the signed document. I'm sorry you don't like this simple fact. You cannot go to the bank after you've signed a loan document and ask where your $1000 rebate is if it's not in the loan contract. It just doesn't work that way.


    That phrase alone has undergone radical changes since it was first coined. Your argument continues to fail.


    Where is the consent of the governed if the governed can't change things?
    i suggest you learn the difference between republican form of government and democratic form first.

    in republican forms of government, the people can vote on many things, however they cannot vote on the rights of other people.

    in democratic forms of government the people can vote on anything, even rights.........the founders did not give us democratic government...they gave us republican government...which limits direct power of the people, by spreading power out, among the people and the states, ...where democratic government concentrates powers only in the people....something the founders did not want becuase it leads to tyranny.

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