View Poll Results: Can the Bill of Rights be legally amended with other Amendments?

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  • YES - anything in the Constitution is subject to the Amendment process.

    43 84.31%
  • NO - you cannot amend anything which changes any provision in the Bill of Rights

    8 15.69%
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Thread: Can you legally Amend the Bill of Rights?

  1. #41
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    Re: Can you legally Amend the Bill of Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    Which doesn't change the argument one bit. Just like any other contract, both sides must approve any changes. All the posturing down this line of attack is worthless with that simple idea, that the States must approve any change to the Constitution. Congress cannot make changes on it's own.
    tell me, friend.........when creating an amendment to our constitution, does not governments vote its up or down, first federal and then the states.........where are the people then?

    what you describing is rights are in the hands of government only, becuase it is they who get to vote on them...........when did government get in charge of rights?

    what are declaratory and restrictive clauses ........to you?........what do they mean, since you have not addressed them.

  2. #42
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    Re: Can you legally Amend the Bill of Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    tell me, friend.........when creating an amendment to our constitution, does not governments vote its up or down, first federal and then the states.........where are the people then?

    what you describing is rights are in the hands of government only, becuase it is they who get to vote on them...........when did government get in charge of rights?

    what are declaratory and restrictive clauses ........to you?........what do they mean, since you have not addressed them.
    The people are in the votes. The people are in the civil unrest that will occur if their representatives in such mass numbers as is needed for a Constitutional Amendment vote to amend the US Constitution, particularly in a way that takes away some of their rights. It is the responsibility of the people to fight back, through votes or force if this happens (depending on how and when it happens).

    The government has been in charge of rights since the beginning. Whether people want to admit this or not, there really aren't any "inalienable" rights. They are rights that people choose to support for each other or "give" each other. That is all. If the vast majority of people in a country want to take away or oppress the rights of others, they will do it. This is no better proven than by slavery. Unless you believe only white men are "men", then slavery is proof that men choose to give/support the rights of other men. They are not inalienable, our Constitution simply makes it very difficult for the government or small groups of people to take the rights that are guaranteed away once recognized as actual rights. It still isn't impossible to take those rights away.
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  3. #43
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    Re: Can you legally Amend the Bill of Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    The people are in the votes. The people are in the civil unrest that will occur if their representatives in such mass numbers as is needed for a Constitutional Amendment vote to amend the US Constitution, particularly in a way that takes away some of their rights. It is the responsibility of the people to fight back, through votes or force if this happens (depending on how and when it happens).

    The government has been in charge of rights since the beginning. Whether people want to admit this or not, there really aren't any "inalienable" rights. They are rights that people choose to support for each other or "give" each other. That is all. If the vast majority of people in a country want to take away or oppress the rights of others, they will do it. This is no better proven than by slavery. Unless you believe only white men are "men", then slavery is proof that men choose to give/support the rights of other men. They are not inalienable, our Constitution simply makes it very difficult for the government or small groups of people to take the rights that are guaranteed away once recognized as actual rights. It still isn't impossible to take those rights away.
    clearly you dont support the founding principles, dont listen to the founders, and chose to see rights , as you wish to see them.


    the word is unalienable......

  4. #44
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    Re: Can you legally Amend the Bill of Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    tell me, friend.........when creating an amendment to our constitution, does not governments vote its up or down, first federal and then the states.........where are the people then?

    what you describing is rights are in the hands of government only, becuase it is they who get to vote on them...........when did government get in charge of rights?
    The people are always there, represented by those they elected, in this case at both the federal and state level.


    However, you yourself said the Constitution is all about limiting the power of the FEDERAL government. Now that your line of attack has been shot down you want to move the goal posts to include the state governments as well?!?
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  5. #45
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    Re: Can you legally Amend the Bill of Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    clearly you dont support the founding principles, dont listen to the founders, and chose to see rights , as you wish to see them.


    the word is unalienable......
    I support the founding principles. I just don't think anyone can make any guarantee of "unalienable" rights. It can't be done. Even our Constitution allows for it to be done. But beyond that, as long as there is any way for someone or a small group of someones to take control of our country, then rights are not unalienable. They can be taken away. And there is always a way for a tyranny to occur, even if the chances are small of it happening.
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  6. #46
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    Re: Can you legally Amend the Bill of Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    The people are always there, represented by those they elected, in this case at both the federal and state level.


    However, you yourself said the Constitution is all about limiting the power of the FEDERAL government. Now that your line of attack has been shot down you want to move the goal posts to include the state governments as well?!?
    fantasy of yours?

    i have already stated my point, and you never addressed my question to you............what do derogatory and restrictive clauses mean?

  7. #47
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    Re: Can you legally Amend the Bill of Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    fantasy of yours?
    You dodged my post completely, so I have no reason to answer your questions.


    The federal government can't change the law by themselves. As for "where are the people" I can ask the same thing about the original signing, "Where were the people?" I'm sure your answer will be the same as mine - they're there by the elected representatives.
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  8. #48
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    Re: Can you legally Amend the Bill of Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    I support the founding principles. I just don't think anyone can make any guarantee of "unalienable" rights. It can't be done. Even our Constitution allows for it to be done. But beyond that, as long as there is any way for someone or a small group of someones to take control of our country, then rights are not unalienable. They can be taken away. And there is always a way for a tyranny to occur, even if the chances are small of it happening.
    rights cannot be taken away , just becuase of a vote, they can be taken from you if you commit a crime........

    rights are not in the hands of the people, becuase that would be a democracy and america is not a democracy at all!

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/us-con...overnment.html
    Last edited by Master PO; 06-03-13 at 02:06 PM.

  9. #49
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    Re: Can you legally Amend the Bill of Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    You dodged my post completely, so I have no reason to answer your questions.
    simple fact.. you cant, and live is denial.

    The Preamble to The Bill of Rights

    Congress of the United States
    begun and held at the City of New-York, on
    Wednesday the fourth of March, one thousand seven hundred and eighty nine.

    THE Conventions of a number of the States, having at the time of their adopting the Constitution, expressed a desire, in order to prevent misconstruction or abuse of its(*federal) powers, that further declaratory and restrictive clauses should be added: And as extending the ground of public confidence in the Government, will best ensure the beneficent ends of its institution.

    * added by me

  10. #50
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    Re: Can you legally Amend the Bill of Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    rights cannot be taken away , just becuase of a vote, they can be taken from you if you commit a crime........

    rights are not in the hands of the people, becuase that would be a democracy and america is not a democracy at all!
    They can be taken away by a vote of a large enough amount of people. If enough people feel that some group should not be allowed a right, such as speech or religion or guns or even due process, for whatever reason, then they can put it in the Constitution as an Amendment if they have enough support. Prohibition proves this. The right to drink alcohol should have fallen under the "rights to the people or the states" guaranteed by the Constitution. Then enough people took that right away from either the people or the state (whichever you care to say) and prohibited alcohol completely until that Amendment was repealed. During Prohibition though, the people's right to drink alcohol or the states' right to control whether the people could drink alcohol was taken away. Prohibition was not struck down by a SCOTUS decision, but rather repealed through the same process that put it into place.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

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