View Poll Results: Can the Bill of Rights be legally amended with other Amendments?

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  • YES - anything in the Constitution is subject to the Amendment process.

    43 84.31%
  • NO - you cannot amend anything which changes any provision in the Bill of Rights

    8 15.69%
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Thread: Can you legally Amend the Bill of Rights?

  1. #191
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    Re: Can you legally Amend the Bill of Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    So you have no verifiable information to claim the Preamble to the BoR is part of the Constitution? That doesn't surprise me because I doubt it is.
    is the BOR with its preamble in the national achieves?.....yes....case closed

  2. #192
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    Re: Can you legally Amend the Bill of Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    What I like or do nor like is not the question. The question was did the states ratify the Preamble to the Bill of Rights. And the answer is NO they did not.
    the whole document was read to the state legislators, when it was presented to them, and accepted as a whole document, not just part of it.

    sorry ....you cannot get around that fact.

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    Re: Can you legally Amend the Bill of Rights?

    Madison is talking about the FREEDOM OF THE PRESS, and how government NO AUTHORITY AT ALL over it becuase of the declaratory and restrictive amendments of the BILL OF RIGHTS


    James Madison, Report on the Virginia Resolutions
    Jan. 1800

    In pursuance of the wishes thus expressed, the first Congress that assembled under the Constitution proposed certain amendments, which have since, by the necessary ratifications, been made a part of it; among which amendments is the article containing, among other prohibitions on the Congress, an express declaration that they should make no law abridging the freedom of the press.

    Without tracing farther the evidence on this subject, it would seem scarcely possible to doubt that no power whatever over the press was supposed to be delegated by the Constitution, as it originally stood, and that the amendment was intended as a positive and absolute reservation of it.

    But the evidence is still stronger. The proposition of amendments made by Congress is introduced in the following terms:

    "The Conventions of a number of the States having, at the time of their adopting the Constitution, expressed a desire, in order to prevent misconstructions or abuse of its powers, that further declaratory and restrictive clauses should be added; and as extending the ground of public confidence in the Government will best insure the beneficent ends of its institutions."

    Here is the most satisfactory and authentic proof that the several amendments proposed were to be considered as either declaratory or restrictive, and, whether the one or the other as corresponding with the desire expressed by a number of the States, and as extending the ground of public confidence in the Government.

    Under any other construction of the amendment relating to the press, than that it declared the press to be wholly exempt from the power of Congress, the amendment could neither be said to correspond with the desire expressed by a number of the States, nor be calculated to extend the ground of public confidence in the Government.

    Nay, more; the construction employed to justify the Sedition Act would exhibit a phenomenon without a parallel in the political world. It would exhibit a number of respectable States, as denying, first, that any power over the press was delegated by the Constitution; as proposing, next, that an amendment to it should explicitly declare that no such power was delegated; and, finally, as concurring in an amendment actually recognizing or delegating such a power.

    Is, then, the Federal Government, it will be asked, destitute of every authority for restraining the licentiousness of the press, and for shielding itself against the libellous attacks which may be made on those who administer it?

    The Constitution alone can answer this question. If no such power be expressly delegated, and if it be not both necessary and proper to carry into execution an express power--above all, if it be expressly forbidden, by a declaratory amendment to the Constitution--the answer must be, that the Federal Government is destitute of all such authority.
    Last edited by Master PO; 06-06-13 at 04:05 PM.

  4. #194
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    Re: Can you legally Amend the Bill of Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    the whole document was read to the state legislators, when it was presented to them, and accepted as a whole document, not just part of it.

    sorry ....you cannot get around that fact.
    You have not presented one shred of evidence .... one line of evidence .... one iota of evidence that anything other than the ten amendments in the Bill of Rights were ratified by the States.

    I really do not care if the bowel movement habits of George Washington were read to the various states along with showing them compromising pictures of Thomas Jefferson and John Adams together at a french brothel - it is irrelevant unless they were actually ratified by the states. If that did not happen - and there is not a shred of evidence that it did - the Preamble to the Bill of Rights has no more legal standing than a few sheets of Charmin and is far less useful in practical terms.
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  5. #195
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    Re: Can you legally Amend the Bill of Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    You have not presented one shred of evidence .... one line of evidence .... one iota of evidence that anything other than the ten amendments in the Bill of Rights were ratified by the States.

    I really do not care if the bowel movement habits of George Washington were read to the various states along with showing them compromising pictures of Thomas Jefferson and John Adams together at a french brothel - it is irrelevant unless they were actually ratified by the states. If that did not happen - and there is not a shred of evidence that it did - the Preamble to the Bill of Rights has no more legal standing than a few sheets of Charmin and is far less useful in practical terms.


    James Madison--

    Here is the most satisfactory and authentic proof that the several amendments proposed were to be considered as either declaratory or restrictive, and, whether the one or the other as corresponding with the desire expressed by a number of the States, and as extending the ground of public confidence in the Government.

    Under any other construction of the amendment relating to the press, than that it declared the press to be wholly exempt from the power of Congress, the amendment could neither be said to correspond with the desire expressed by a number of the States, nor be calculated to extend the ground of public confidence in the Government.

    James Madison--"The Constitution alone can answer this question. If no such power be expressly delegated, and if it be not both necessary and proper to carry into execution an express power--above all, if it be expressly forbidden, by a declaratory amendment to the Constitution--the answer must be, that the Federal Government is destitute of all such authority.

    Madison it very clear here congress has NO AUTHORITY WHAT SO-EVER OVER THE PRESS, becuase of the declaratory and restrictive clauses of the bill of rights.
    Last edited by Master PO; 06-06-13 at 04:37 PM.

  6. #196
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    Re: Can you legally Amend the Bill of Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    James madsion--"The Constitution alone can answer this question. If no such power be expressly delegated, and if it be not both necessary and proper to carry into execution an express power--above all, if it be expressly forbidden, by a declaratory amendment to the Constitution--the answer must be, that the Federal Government is destitute of all such authority.
    Add that to other things with less practical usage than the Charmin toilet tissue.
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  7. #197
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    Re: Can you legally Amend the Bill of Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Add that to other things with less practical usage than the Charmin toilet tissue.
    sorry you will not accept the fact Madison wrote the bill or rights and knows more about them then anyone, and he states most assuredly that the rights of the people cannot be repealed ,becuase congress has absolutely no authority over them.

    The Resolution next in order is as follows:

    "That this State having, by its Convention, which ratified the Federal Constitution, expressly declared that, among other essential rights, 'the liberty of conscience and of the press cannot be cancelled, abridged, restrained, or modified, by any authority of the United States;' and, from its extreme anxiety to guard these rights from every possible attack of sophistry and ambition, having, with other States, recommended an amendment for that purpose, which amendment was in due time annexed to the Constitution, it would mark a reproachful inconsistency, and criminal degeneracy, if an indifference were now shown to the most palpable violation of one of the rights thus declared and secured, and to the establishment of a precedent which may be fatal to the other."
    Last edited by Master PO; 06-06-13 at 05:02 PM.

  8. #198
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    Re: Can you legally Amend the Bill of Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post

    The Resolution next in order is as follows:

    "That this State having, by its Convention, which ratified the Federal Constitution, expressly declared that, among other essential rights, 'the liberty of conscience and of the press cannot be cancelled, abridged, restrained, or modified, by any authority of the United States;' and, from its extreme anxiety to guard these rights from every possible attack of sophistry and ambition, having, with other States, recommended an amendment for that purpose, which amendment was in due time annexed to the Constitution, it would mark a reproachful inconsistency, and criminal degeneracy, if an indifference were now shown to the most palpable violation of one of the rights thus declared and secured, and to the establishment of a precedent which may be fatal to the other."
    Perhaps it was an oversight and you forget to link to the source of that quotation?
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  9. #199
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    Re: Can you legally Amend the Bill of Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Perhaps it was an oversight and you forget to link to the source of that quotation?
    no not an oversight....i mentioned the source already...but i will again for you...James Madison, Report on the Virginia Resolutions
    Jan. 1800

  10. #200
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    Re: Can you legally Amend the Bill of Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    is the BOR with its preamble in the national achieves?.....yes....case closed
    Last time I checked, federal laws weren't the only things housed in the National Archives. If the case is closed, you lost.
    Last edited by MoSurveyor; 06-06-13 at 08:39 PM.
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