View Poll Results: Can the Bill of Rights be legally amended with other Amendments?

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  • YES - anything in the Constitution is subject to the Amendment process.

    43 84.31%
  • NO - you cannot amend anything which changes any provision in the Bill of Rights

    8 15.69%
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Thread: Can you legally Amend the Bill of Rights?

  1. #101
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    Re: Can you legally Amend the Bill of Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Madison has no authority on his own to do anything with the bill of rights or any other part of the Constitution in terms of changes, additions or anything else.

    His opinion might be an interesting historical footnote - but legally changes nothing in the actual Constitution.

    And why does my copy of the Constitution NOT contain this famous Preamble you keep talking about?
    really!!!...Madison did not think a BOR was necessary at all, however in reaching a compromise with the anti Federalist ,he promised one would be created after the constitution was ratified, and he kept his word...and wrote the bill, , and he is the highest authority on it, and he states clearly, that the bill is declaratory and restrictive to the new federal government, so if they abuse their powers, the bill of rights would stop them from infringing on the rights of the people, and this would give the people confidence in the federal government.

  2. #102
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    Re: Can you legally Amend the Bill of Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    well since Madison wrote the BILL OF RIGHTS i believe he is the highest authority on them.
    Since Madison isn't alive and could not have any power to restrict what we, as a nation does right now, then no he isn't the highest authority on them.

    If 47 of 50 states (I'm using a random number above the required here, it could be any number above the required for the amount of states we would have at the time of the vote) voted on an Amendment proposed in the proper manner by Congress that took away the freedom of the press, there is nothing anyone could legally, under our Constitution, do to stop other laws from being enacted by states and/or the federal government, not even the SCOTUS. There would be a limited number of options to restore that freedom. One would be to vote out all of those who did that and vote in people who would be willing to vote for repeal of such an Amendment. The second would be a revolt to try to take back the government. If you have enough support that you think you may make a successful revolt though, then it is likely that you have enough support to overturn that Amendment anyway.
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  3. #103
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    Re: Can you legally Amend the Bill of Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    really!!!...Madison did not think a BOR was necessary at all, however in reaching a compromise with the anti Federalist ,he promised one would be created after the constitution was ratified, and he kept his word...and wrote the bill, , and he is the highest authority on it, and he states clearly, that the bill is declaratory and restrictive to the new federal government, so if they abuse their powers, the bill of rights would stop them from infringing on the rights of the people, and this would give the people confidence in the federal government.
    But Madison has no power to make that statement and have it be considered as law. So in the end its just his own personal musings.

    When the States ratified the Amendments in the Bill of Rights, did they also ratify the Preamble to it?
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  4. #104
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    Re: Can you legally Amend the Bill of Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    Nothing says Congress can take no action, it says "Congress shall make no law". As you've just admitted, Congress is - on it's face - not making law by proposing a change.


    I've already corrected you once on this, do you need another correction?
    so again your saying congress can propose an amendment, pass it by 2/3 of congress and work to get it passed by states, and then alter of abolish rights, and then make laws, concerning those rights which were protected before the amendment?

    wow, ..sure sounds to me, like a way around the rights of the people...which are unalienable.......Not to be separated, given away, or taken away

  5. #105
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    Re: Can you legally Amend the Bill of Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    rights are unalienable ...........if the could be amended or repealed, then they would not be unalienable.
    That's a bunch of philisophical mumbo jumbo.

    In the real world, in actual practice, "rights" eminate from the barrel of a gun.

    You can claim to have a right to free speech, religion, to not incriminate yourself, whatever.

    And you can keep on claiming that those are your rights all the way to prison, or to the torture chamber, or to the gallows.

    And maybe from a philosophical perspective you'd be right.

    But it wouldn't change the fact that you're a man with the right to free speech swinging from the end of a rope for speeking freely in contravention to what your government allowed.

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann
    I am a free man with rights! And I retain the sovereign prerogative to...
    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrannical Government
    Fair enough Mr. barkmann. Please stand against that wall. Cigarette? Blindfold?
    Can the government repeal any or all of the Bill of Rights?

    You're damn straight they can.

    Maybe you'd still actually "have" those rights, in theory, but if the government stops recognizing them, and you can't or won't assert them, what good are they?
    Last edited by soot; 06-03-13 at 04:11 PM.

  6. #106
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    Re: Can you legally Amend the Bill of Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    well since Madison wrote the BILL OF RIGHTS i believe he is the highest authority on them.
    Don't forget George Mason.

  7. #107
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    Re: Can you legally Amend the Bill of Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    But Madison has no power to make that statement and have it be considered as law. So in the end its just his own personal musings.

    When the States ratified the Amendments in the Bill of Rights, did they also ratify the Preamble to it?

    the preambles are the goals of our foundlings documents, and what they are trying to achieve.

    the BOR is to secure the rights of the people from infringement by the federal government.......this means government has no power over them to take any kind of action concerning them.

  8. #108
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    Re: Can you legally Amend the Bill of Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Don't forget George Mason.
    i didn't i mentioned him earlier.

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    Re: Can you legally Amend the Bill of Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Don't forget George Mason.
    will you take over, for me, i have a doctors appointment soon......

  10. #110
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    Re: Can you legally Amend the Bill of Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by soot View Post
    That's a bunch of philisophical mumbo jumbo.

    In the real world, in actual practice, "rights" eminate from the barrel of a gun.

    You can claim to have a right to free speech, religion, to not incriminate yourself, whatever.

    And you can keep on claiming that those are your rights all the way to prison, or to the torture chamber, or to the gallows.

    And maybe from a philosophical perspective you'd be right.

    But it wouldn't change the fact that you're a man with the right to free speech swinging from the end of a rope for speeking freely in contravention to what your government allowed.
    Great post.

    I would say that rights come from a two step process:

    1- enough citizens come to demand that a certain behavior be recognized and protected by the government as a right.

    2- they use their power to get the government to enshrine that behavior as a right.

    Power can come in all forms - at the ballot box and with brute force.
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