View Poll Results: Do you support the death penalty for voter fraud?

Voters
97. You may not vote on this poll
  • I'm a Democrat and approve the death penalty for committing voter fraud.

    0 0%
  • I'm a Republican and approve the death penalty for committing voter fraud

    3 3.09%
  • I'm neither a Democrat nor Republican and approve the death penalty for committing voter fraud.

    6 6.19%
  • I'm a Democrat and disapprove the death penalty for committing voter fraud.

    18 18.56%
  • I'm a Republican and disapprove of the death penalty for committing voter fraud.

    12 12.37%
  • I'm neither a Democrat nor Republican and disapprove the death penalty for committing voter fraud.

    58 59.79%
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Thread: Death penalty for voter fraud

  1. #251
    Sage

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    Re: Death penalty for voter fraud

    Quote Originally Posted by HumanBeing View Post
    Voter fraud has two parts to it, your irrelevant examples only speak to the second which isn't illegal by itself. It's the fraud part that's specifically illegal.
    Irrelevant examples?!?!?!? What irrelevant examples? Explain yourself. You gave us a definition of voter fraud and I showed you why that definition is full of crap since it also perfectly describes a myriad of perfectly legal activities.



    Originally Posted by HumanBeing
    Voter fraud is an attempt to change the outcome of an election.

    Each one of my "irrelevant examples" fit perfectly the definition you provided. You obviously over reached.
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  2. #252
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    Re: Death penalty for voter fraud

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Irrelevant examples?!?!?!? What irrelevant examples? Explain yourself. You gave us a definition of voter fraud and I showed you why that definition is full of crap since it also perfectly
    I didn't give you a definition of voter fraud. I noted its stated goal. "Explain yourself"? Seriously? You come up with all this complete and utter nonsense, you don't even seem to read anything before you respond to it, and you have the nerve to demand people "explain themselves" to you? This is getting pathetic. You abandoned your initial point over a page ago

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket
    Each one of my "irrelevant examples" fit perfectly the definition you provided. You obviously over reached.
    They were irrelevant because they weren't illegal. Voter fraud is an illegal action that is designed to change the outcome of elections. Campaigning is a legal action aimed at achieving the same result. Is that clear enough, or do you need someone to draw you a picture?

    Trolling is fine if you can be clever or funny about it, but there's nothing endearing about your condescending ignorance.

    You claim that discussion of punishment for a crime is only warranted if the crime has already been proven to have been committed on a mass scale. That's it. That's your point. That's what you've spent roughly a dozen pages trying to back up. It's just silly, and by definition it is the polar opposite of "prudent" which you are claiming to be.

    pru·dent
    /ˈpro͞odnt/
    Adjective
    Acting with or showing care and thought for the future.
    If you hate capitalism so much, then just write everything in lower case. Problem solved.

  3. #253
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    Re: Death penalty for voter fraud

    Quote Originally Posted by HumanBeing View Post
    I didn't give you a definition of voter fraud.
    Yes you did. Here it is again:

    Voter fraud is an attempt to change the outcome of an election.
    Now you try to correct that error by moving the goalposts as follows

    Voter fraud is an illegal action that is designed to change the outcome of elections.
    Too bad for you that was not your original statement before you had to be corrected.

    Trolling is fine if you can be clever or funny about it, but there's nothing endearing about your condescending ignorance.
    Perhaps it is for you - but I view it as a violation of the rules. As for ignorance, you are the one who was caught giving a bogus meaning to a term and then had to change it when corrected.

    You claim that discussion of punishment for a crime is only warranted if the crime has already been proven to have been committed on a mass scale.
    That is false. That is not my position nor has it been my position and you presented no quote from me which states such. The crime of voter fraud is indeed punished in the law. It already is. What you apparently want to do is change that system and because IT IS YOU who wants more - IT IS YOU who has the burden to demonstrate that this is indeed a serious and significant problem that requires a greater solution that is now available in the law.


    It's just silly, and by definition it is the polar opposite of "prudent" which you are claiming to be.
    Actually, my approach on this issue is indeed the conservative and prudent approach. We have a crime - we have a punishment. That is in the law now and has been for some time. I am happy with it and do not want to expand the powers of government or risk encroaching and violating peoples rights in the future on this because of paranoia and fear from political extremists.

    That is very much a conservative approach. The radical approach is to go off half-cocked and take sweeping action without even proving such action is warranted. Not only is that radical - but it is the opposite or prudent.... it is grossly irresponsible.
    Last edited by haymarket; 06-14-13 at 04:36 PM.
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  4. #254
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    Re: Death penalty for voter fraud

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    When we reach that reality, I can properly evaluate it and give you a definitive answer.
    So you would propose different penalties depending on the number. That was a very roundabout way of answering my original question, but thank you, finally.

  5. #255
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    Re: Death penalty for voter fraud

    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    So you would propose different penalties depending on the number. That was a very roundabout way of answering my original question, but thank you, finally.
    There already are penalties to deal with the crime. I am NOT proposing any different penalties nor am I endorsing any NEW methods to deal with a problem that is not yet proven to exist beyond the current level which the law already deals with.

    You and others think the current law and penalties is not sufficient? Fine. State your case and present your proof of a problem that is plaguing the nation that the current law does not adequately deal with.
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  6. #256
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    Re: Death penalty for voter fraud

    before considering the death penalty for voter fraud, we should discuss the death penalty for something much more serious - voter suppression ...

  7. #257
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    Re: Death penalty for voter fraud

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    There already are penalties to deal with the crime. I am NOT proposing any different penalties nor am I endorsing any NEW methods to deal with a problem that is not yet proven to exist beyond the current level which the law already deals with.

    You and others think the current law and penalties is not sufficient? Fine. State your case and present your proof of a problem that is plaguing the nation that the current law does not adequately deal with.
    I'm fine with the current law. I simply asked whether you would decide upon the penalty for a crime based upon the frequency with which that crime is committed.

  8. #258
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    Re: Death penalty for voter fraud

    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    I'm fine with the current law. I simply asked whether you would decide upon the penalty for a crime based upon the frequency with which that crime is committed.
    I would not even worry about such a consideration without first viewing proof that the problem exists in the first place and is not being handled in the law today.
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    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

  9. #259
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    Re: Death penalty for voter fraud

    Quote Originally Posted by Indeed View Post
    Usually because it doesn't get caught.

    https://www.declarationentertainment...oter-fraud-101
    Voter ID Laws Target Rarely Occurring Voter Fraud | Fox News

    Even a story from Fox News points out that it doesn't really happen.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/12/wa...anted=all&_r=0

    This story is about the five-year plan by the Bush DoJ to seek out voter fraud and in five years, they didn't find anything.

    So, without actual evidence, it's just a canard to rile-up rural types so they fear that city-folks and college kids trying to steal elections.

    It's like the people who look at a map of the country and see all those red counties and can't figure out WHY their guy didn't win, when it's actually quite simple. My county (one of the few blue ones in Tennessee) is just a tiny speck on that national map - but it contains more people than the entire state of Wyoming. But, when you don't get things like geography, you assume that something awful must be happening. "Those people" must be stealing votes.

  10. #260
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    Re: Death penalty for voter fraud

    No because thats excessive.


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