View Poll Results: Do you support the death penalty for voter fraud?

Voters
97. You may not vote on this poll
  • I'm a Democrat and approve the death penalty for committing voter fraud.

    0 0%
  • I'm a Republican and approve the death penalty for committing voter fraud

    3 3.09%
  • I'm neither a Democrat nor Republican and approve the death penalty for committing voter fraud.

    6 6.19%
  • I'm a Democrat and disapprove the death penalty for committing voter fraud.

    18 18.56%
  • I'm a Republican and disapprove of the death penalty for committing voter fraud.

    12 12.37%
  • I'm neither a Democrat nor Republican and disapprove the death penalty for committing voter fraud.

    58 59.79%
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Thread: Death penalty for voter fraud

  1. #171
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    Re: Death penalty for voter fraud

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    It still seems that death is so overused now that it's lost its power. As evidenced by someone thinking that it's an appropriate penalty for voter fraud. Why not just have the death penalty for speeding? Have it for everything, and give the police the authority to execute you on the spot without a trial.
    Well, the OP is an extremely-far-reaching-hyperbolistic one that makes so little sense, I'd ascribe it a negative value. Certainly, there should be penalties for voter fraud, but death? I mean, c'mon.
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  2. #172
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    Re: Death penalty for voter fraud

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    As the OP's solution inherently presumes the existence of a problem which merits such a serious punishment, my question is 100% relevant.
    The seriousness of the crime has nothing to do with the frequency of the crime. Your question about the crime's frequency is irrelevant to considerations of its seriousness and what the punishment ought to be.

  3. #173
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    Re: Death penalty for voter fraud

    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    The seriousness of the crime has nothing to do with the frequency of the crime. Your question about the crime's frequency is irrelevant to considerations of its seriousness and what the punishment ought to be.
    Really now?! One case of voter fraud is irrelevant. A million cases is one serious national problem.

    This demands a number.
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    Re: Death penalty for voter fraud

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Really now?! One case of voter fraud is irrelevant. A million cases is one serious national problem.

    This demands a number.
    The appropriate penalty for a crime is not a function of the frequency of that crime. The OP made no statements about the frequency, as the frequency is immaterial to the punishment. We don't say, well if one person does it it should be a week in prison, but if a million people do it it should be the death penalty. It doesn't work that way. You pick a punishment for a crime, regardless of that crime's frequency. Your question about the frequency of the crime is irrelevant to a discussion of that crime's appropriate punishment.

  5. #175
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    Re: Death penalty for voter fraud

    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    The appropriate penalty for a crime is not a function of the frequency of that crime. The OP made no statements about the frequency, as the frequency is immaterial to the punishment. We don't say, well if one person does it it should be a week in prison, but if a million people do it it should be the death penalty. It doesn't work that way. You pick a punishment for a crime, regardless of that crime's frequency. Your question about the frequency of the crime is irrelevant to a discussion of that crime's appropriate punishment.
    In this case - it certainly is part of it. And the main idea here is that somebody has proposed the ultimate penalty for a non capital crime and we have no evidence that it is any kind of significant problem.

    The zealots on the right have been exposed on this. They have nothing except their own desire to suppress the vote to win elections for Republicans.
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  6. #176
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    Re: Death penalty for voter fraud

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    In this case - it certainly is part of it. And the main idea here is that somebody has proposed the ultimate penalty for a non capital crime and we have no evidence that it is any kind of significant problem.

    The zealots on the right have been exposed on this. They have nothing except their own desire to suppress the vote to win elections for Republicans.
    No. The OP made no claims regarding how often voter fraud occurs.

  7. #177
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    Re: Death penalty for voter fraud

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Really now?! One case of voter fraud is irrelevant. A million cases is one serious national problem
    You're right. If there's one murder per year, we shouldn't even discuss how it should be punished, let alone actually punish it. We should wait until millions of people are murdering each other before we discuss appropriate punishment.[/sarcasm]
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  8. #178
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    Re: Death penalty for voter fraud

    I said "yes," though I'd support other strong penalties, such as twenty years at hard labor for minor offenses.

    If you're going to have a republic, and make the individual citizens the ultimate level of government, then voter fraud, or more correctly election fraud has to be seen as tantamount to treason in war. Both are committed for the purpose of overthrowing the government and the sovereignty of the People.

    We send young people to die to protect our system and way of life. We have to be ready and willing to sacrifice the lives of criminal subversives too, or we're morally rotten.
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  9. #179
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    Re: Death penalty for voter fraud

    Quote Originally Posted by Rainman05 View Post
    I think those who do voter fraud have their electoral rights removed and spend up to 1 year in prison. But the electoral rights removal part is for life.

    I disapprove of the death penalty universally, for anything, except treason or high treason.
    What is the difference exactly between overthrowing the government with treason, and overthrowing it with fake voes, if in the end, the result is pretty much the same?
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  10. #180
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    Re: Death penalty for voter fraud

    Quote Originally Posted by Oftencold View Post
    What is the difference exactly between overthrowing the government with treason, and overthrowing it with fake voes, if in the end, the result is pretty much the same?
    Overthrowing it with treason implies:
    -betrayal of the traitors' oaths. Also, you betray the trust of the people who put you in office (the country)
    -violence -> you opened the gates and the barbarians sacked the city
    -loss of independence through force. the people are no longer represented at all because the ruling government is a different one (say, beijing)
    -etc.

    Changing the government through votes means that unless all the votes that overthrew the government were forged, which doesn't happen, a popular opinion is still represented.
    So if you had a referendum, and the outcome was 51 to 49, even if 2/51 was forged, you still had a pretty large group of people who wanted to vote one way or the other. And it doesn't imply violence. And unless the forgery was done by the government itself, there is no betrayal of trust, no betrayal of oath and public duty.

    So yeah. There is a big difference. Sure, the outcome is the same, but the means and the implications vary greatly.

    Overall, the death sentence is a barbaric method. It is also unchristian if you happen to be a devout Christian, you shouldn't support it for any crime except treason. Because treason supercedes religion. It goes against nature. Evolution itself despises treason and that's why you don't see treason in the animal kingdom. So a traitor can no longer be considered human. Just a monster.

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