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Institutional Racism [W:344]

Does institutional racism currently exist in America?


  • Total voters
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And if colleges and businesses are NOT using quotas, then why do they have to even ask your race, whether you are black, white or Hispanic, etc.?

So you have a white guy and a black guy who are equal in grades applying for the same university, the administrators look at the "color" of the applicant and say, OH, this guy is African American AND he has decent grades, accepted! So sorry white guy with the same qualifications.
 
yeah, it tends to piss you off when you go in and apply for a job with a guy you went to HS with and you know you have more education and more experience than he does and he gets the job simply because he is a minority.

That's exactly what I mean, it perpetuates resentment. There should be no "special class" of citizen. If a company is found to be discriminating, then it should be handled appropriately, but I don't see a need to have AA.
 
That's exactly what I mean, it perpetuates resentment. There should be no "special class" of citizen. If a company is found to be discriminating, then it should be handled appropriately, but I don't see a need to have AA.

one of the biggest problems with AA is that under the EO businesses are "encouraged" to "recruit" minorities

Executive Order 11246 requires contractors with 51 or more employees and contracts of $50,000 or more to implement affirmative action plans to increase the participation of minorities and women in the workplace if a workforce analysis demonstrates their under-representation

IOW, if blacks make up 13% of the population, you are required to have 13% of your employees be black..whether they are the best qualified for the job or not.
 
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one of the biggest problems with AA is that under the EO businesses are "encouraged" to "recruit" minorities

That wouldn't surprise me at all. I know colleges do this too, and they accept minority students on a quota system. AJ can deny until he is blue in the face.
 
That wouldn't surprise me at all. I know colleges do this too, and they accept minority students on a quota system. AJ can deny until he is blue in the face.

under EO 11246, if an employer doesn't have enough minority employees, they are required to implement a plan to increase the number of minorities they employ. That means if a white guy and a black guy apply for a job....the black guy gets the job until the employer reaches what the govt thinks is an appropriate level of "minority representation in their workforce"

yeah...AJ can deny it until the cows come home..but it doesn't change what is outlined in the executive orders
 
and those people feeling that way would be wrong an uneducated.

I doubt that. Quotas are used. The University of Texas tried to end affirmative action and only accepted based upon academic achievement. Not enough blacks were accepted, they were sued and the courts made them accept the proper quota of blacks. It exists, get over it.

The very fact that it exists leads to more racism, even from those who have no desire to be racist. If I am looking for a doctor, I only go to ones that are not guaranteed x number of slots based upon affirmative action quotas. In other words, if I want quality and the best chance of getting the highest quality, then I go to white heterosexual males, they are the only grouping that are not given special treatment and therefore are the only group where you know, beyond any reasonable doubt, that they have earned their way to where the are. It may not guarantee top quality, but it definitely disqualifies service of the lowest quality, ie, from those who made it on AA quotas and not through their own achievement.
 
1.)I doubt that. Quotas are used. The University of Texas tried to end affirmative action and only accepted based upon academic achievement. Not enough blacks were accepted, they were sued and the courts made them accept the proper quota of blacks. It exists, get over it.

2.)The very fact that it exists leads to more racism, even from those who have no desire to be racist. If I am looking for a doctor, I only go to ones that are not guaranteed x number of slots based upon affirmative action quotas. In other words, if I want quality and the best chance of getting the highest quality, then I go to white heterosexual males, they are the only grouping that are not given special treatment and therefore are the only group where you know, beyond any reasonable doubt, that they have earned their way to where the are. It may not guarantee top quality, but it definitely disqualifies service of the lowest quality, ie, from those who made it on AA quotas and not through their own achievement.

LMAO theres nothing to get over
facts dont change no matter your misunderstanding of them or not

quotas are in fact illegal

and those using quotas are factually NOT prating AA/EO.

They were found guilty of a crime then forced to try to right it, if they used qotas before hind they would hav also faced criminal charges like other people have

2. white males benefit most from AA/EO than any other group because they are the majority

thanks for proving that you dont understand what AA/EO actually is

any place giving this special treatment you speak of is NOT practing AA/EO :shrug:
 
Not true. Some people might feel that way after being passed over for a job because of their skin color.

actually its 100% true because if they were passed over because of their skin trouble and they think that was because of AA/EO they are morons.

if thats why they got passed over it proves that place was NOT practicing AA/EO.
 
any place giving this special treatment you speak of is NOT practing AA/EO :shrug:

so what about the executive order that mandates employers implement plans to increase the number of minority employee if their workforce is not "representative" of the population?

any way you slice it, that's a freakin quota. if blacks make up 13% of the population...you must have 13% black employees or implement a plan to hire more blacks. if females make up 51% of the population...you must have 51% female employees or implement a plan to hire more females.
 
1.)so what about the executive order that mandates employers implement plans to increase the number of minority employee if their workforce is not "representative" of the population?

2.)any way you slice it, that's a freakin quota.

3.) if blacks make up 13% of the population...you must have 13% black employees or implement a plan to hire more blacks. if females make up 51% of the population...you must have 51% female employees or implement a plan to hire more females.

1.) PLANS as in opportunity and there are laws/orders/policies in place that makes this apply to the population PERIOD. not just minorities :shrug:

2.) nope not a qouta because its not about HIRING or EMPLOYMENT its about opportunity

3.) 100% false LMAO
you are factually wrong, a company does not have to employ the matching percentage of the population. My company doesnt and we are government contractors the ones looked at the most by these laws/rules.

the plan could be to REACH them, give them a CHANCE, it isnt to factually hire them.
 
LMAO theres nothing to get over
facts dont change no matter your misunderstanding of them or not

quotas are in fact illegal

and those using quotas are factually NOT prating AA/EO.

They were found guilty of a crime then forced to try to right it, if they used qotas before hind they would hav also faced criminal charges like other people have

2. white males benefit most from AA/EO than any other group because they are the majority

thanks for proving that you dont understand what AA/EO actually is

any place giving this special treatment you speak of is NOT practing AA/EO :shrug:

You may call them whatever you like, it doesn't change the fact that the "goals" of AA are in fact used and enforced as quotas. You may call a janitor a sanitation engineer, but at the end of the day, the function is still the same, regardless of the name given to it.
 
You may call them whatever you like, it doesn't change the fact that the "goals" of AA are in fact used and enforced as quotas. You may call a janitor a sanitation engineer, but at the end of the day, the function is still the same, regardless of the name given to it.

no you have that backwards, YOU may call them what you want.
Im using and going by facts LMAO

but definition thats not AA/EO and no matter how much you state your opinion that you think it is, facts and the definition of AA/EO prove you wrong :shrug:

weird people have been fined and criminally prosecuted for quotas.
 
1.) PLANS as in opportunity and there are laws/orders/policies in place that makes this apply to the population PERIOD. not just minorities :shrug:

2.) nope not a qouta because its not about HIRING or EMPLOYMENT its about opportunity

3.) 100% false LMAO
you are factually wrong, a company does not have to employ the matching percentage of the population. My company doesnt and we are government contractors the ones looked at the most by these laws/rules.

the plan could be to REACH them, give them a CHANCE, it isnt to factually hire them.

bull****. they are mandated to have a representative workforce, the only way to comply with the mandate is to "factually" hire minorities. if they don't have enough minority employee they are forced to hire more. that is "factually" a quota.

so you tell me.....if a company is not in compliance with this mandate and two guys apply for the same job. both equally qualified and one is a minority....which one is going to be hired?
 
bull****. they are mandated to have a representative workforce, the only way to comply with the mandate is to "factually" hire minorities. if they don't have enough minority employee they are forced to hire more. that is "factually" a quota.

2.)so you tell me.....if a company is not in compliance with this mandate and two guys apply for the same job. both equally qualified and one is a minority....which one is going to be hired?

LOL bull**** huh? thats all you got
no they are not forced to HIRE more, facts simple disagree with you and since this is the second thing i do for my company im well aware of how it works.

there are no quotas and we do not employee matching percentage to the local population nor are we forced to. Sorry you are wrong.

2.) not sure how many times this ever happens in real life but the answer is i dont know because the mandate is only about opportunity not hiring so as long as they are following the mandate they are practicing AA/EO and not breaking the law.
 
LOL bull**** huh? thats all you got
no they are not forced to HIRE more, facts simple disagree with you and since this is the second thing i do for my company im well aware of how it works.

there are no quotas and we do not employee matching percentage to the local population nor are we forced to. Sorry you are wrong.

so you ignore executive order 11246? must be nice

2.) not sure how many times this ever happens in real life but the answer is i dont know because the mandate is only about opportunity not hiring so as long as they are following the mandate they are practicing AA/EO and not breaking the law.

the mandate clearly states that the employer must have a representative work force. it does not say that they must provide equal opportunity...it states that they must have a representative workforce :shrug:
 
so you ignore executive order 11246? must be nice



the mandate clearly states that the employer must have a representative work force. it does not say that they must provide equal opportunity...it states that they must have a representative workforce :shrug:

Don't bother arguing with him too much. You have given good sources for us, the audience, to get enough information to affect our opinion. Judging from his post, present and past, he regularly demonstrates a love of ignorance and an unwillingness to consider facts and data contrary to his preconceived prejudice. This and the rather immaturity demonstrated in the way he quite often posts, just accept that he is a boy who doesn't yet have the experience to open his mind to reality or other views. Just treat him like a kid and try to provide him with a means of gaining knowledge (not that he will use it, but give it anyways), don't argue with him like he was a rational man.
 
1.)so you ignore executive order 11246? must be nice



the mandate clearly states that the employer must have a representative work force. it does not say that they must provide equal opportunity...it states that they must have a representative workforce :shrug:

1.) nope didnt ignore it at all, making stuff up wont help your case LMAO
2.) no you simply misunderstand it and again you are factually wrong
all hiring and advancement decisions are based on individual qualifications and merit, but recruitment and development programs are structured such that high-quality candidates are available to help achieve a representative workforce."

sorry also the particular order you brought up is the one i deal with directly because its baout GOVERNMENT and GOVERNMENT contractors. Thats exactly what i do.

a company would be in violation or under go review if they local population was 50% black and 50 white, 20% WOMEN (NOT JUST MINORITIES) and the most important part they were all QUALIFIED if it could be proven my company didnt INTERVIEW or REACH OUT TO about those same amounts.

But if i did interview them matching about those same amounts and no wrong doings could be proven with my hiring process its would be fine, there are factually no quotas or force to make the workforce match.

Sorry again facts disagree with you

http://www.dol.gov/ofccp/regs/compliance/aa.htm
 
Don't bother arguing with him too much. You have given good sources for us, the audience, to get enough information to affect our opinion. Judging from his post, present and past, he regularly demonstrates a love of ignorance and an unwillingness to consider facts and data contrary to his preconceived prejudice. This and the rather immaturity demonstrated in the way he quite often posts, just accept that he is a boy who doesn't yet have the experience to open his mind to reality or other views. Just treat him like a kid and try to provide him with a means of gaining knowledge (not that he will use it, but give it anyways), don't argue with him like he was a rational man.

Translation: you have nothing so you resorted to failed lies, insults and being uncivil

i have facts and you have opinion :shrug:

there have been ZERO facts presented to go against the facts i stated, and lying about that wont change anything.

Let me know when you have any facts to support your false claims and are ready to stay on topic
 
Moderator's Warning:
Cease with the personal attacks. Stick to the topic, which is not each other.
 

from your link

Based on the utilization analyses under Executive Order 11246 and the availability of qualified individuals, the contractors establish goals to reduce or overcome the under-utilization. Good faith efforts may include expanded efforts in outreach, recruitment, training and other activities to increase the pool of qualified minorities and females

The female goal of 6.9 percent was extended indefinitely in 1980 and remains in effect today. Construction contractors are not required to develop written affirmative action programs. The regulations enumerate the good faith steps construction contractors must take in order to increase the utilization of minorities and women in the skilled trades.
 
from your link

exactly, thanks you! LMAO

again government not public and its based on availability, qualification etc

notice the words OUTREACH, increase POOLS

NOT forced hiring
NOT quotas
simply a matter of you not understanding what you are reading.
Like is i said i deal with these rules, i know what they mean and i have too


wish i could post the all the info
thanks
 
Translation: you have nothing so you resorted to failed lies, insults and being uncivil

i have facts and you have opinion :shrug:

there have been ZERO facts presented to go against the facts i stated, and lying about that wont change anything.

Let me know when you have any facts to support your false claims and are ready to stay on topic

No. Translation. I was not talking to you. I was giving someone else advice from what I have learned from experience in the hope that they will learn from my experience. Actually has nothing to do with your arguments on this subject. I have let you lead me too far in arguments before, and I would advice other not to let themselves also be lead too far.
 
exactly, thanks you! LMAO

again government not public and its based on availability, qualification etc

notice the words OUTREACH, increase POOLS

NOT forced hiring
NOT quotas
simply a matter of you not understanding what you are reading.
Like is i said i deal with these rules, i know what they mean and i have too


wish i could post the all the info
thanks

in essence...the employer is forced to reach out and put plans in place to increase the pool of qualified minority applicants in order to hire them on a non-discriminatory basis. ;)
 
No. Translation. I was not talking to you. I was giving someone else advice from what I have learned from experience in the hope that they will learn from my experience. Actually has nothing to do with your arguments on this subject. I have let you lead me too far in arguments before, and I would advice other not to let themselves also be lead too far.
translation: you STILL have zero facts to support your arguments while i have presented facts

let me know when you do
 
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