View Poll Results: Does institutional racism currently exist in America?

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  • Yes, and it is rampant.

    14 22.95%
  • Yes, in quite a few places, but not everywhere.

    30 49.18%
  • For the most part, no. It exists but is rare.

    15 24.59%
  • Absolutely not.

    2 3.28%
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Thread: Institutional Racism [W:344]

  1. #81
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    re: Institutional Racism [W:344]

    Quote Originally Posted by Surtr View Post
    For the most part, I would say no. Even if it does, federal laws and regulations make actions against others based on racism a punishable offense with crippling penalties, so it's a non-issue.
    I am not ignoring the fact that black people endured a lot of racism, because they did. However, perfect examples of current institutional racism are:

    All black colleges, scholarships, Black Entertainment Television, magazines, etc.

  2. #82
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    re: Institutional Racism [W:344]

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    I explained my point. That while all forms of commercial music are largely anti-intellectual, what we see in commercial rap far exceeds what we see in other genre's of music.

    It goes far beyond merely violent lyrics. The musicians are often involved in major drug distribution busts, murder investigations, and a high degree of involvement with street gangs. This is why you have rival musicians shooting each other and ordering physical attacks and robbery, etc.

    If you want to equivocate that with sexualized lyrics and sexist imagery be my guest, but you'll come off as rather silly
    Now, you're not talking about music anymore. You're talking about people's lives. You keep changing the goal posts and the topic, in general. Please explain how commercial rap MUSIC is more anti-intellectual than other forms of commercial MUSIC.

  3. #83
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    re: Institutional Racism [W:344]

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    Now, you're not talking about music anymore. You're talking about people's lives. You keep changing the goal posts and the topic, in general. Please explain how commercial rap MUSIC is more anti-intellectual than other forms of commercial MUSIC.
    What is anti-intellectual is your attempt to defend rap music.

  4. #84
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    re: Institutional Racism [W:344]

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    Now, you're not talking about music anymore. You're talking about people's lives. You keep changing the goal posts and the topic, in general. Please explain how commercial rap MUSIC is more anti-intellectual than other forms of commercial MUSIC.
    Lol, no I'm talking about the content and message of the music. The values and lifestyle it promotes.

    The very same things I was discussing in my original post. So no goal posts have been changed

  5. #85
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    re: Institutional Racism [W:344]

    "Institutional racism" definition (Wiki):

    Institutional racism describes any kind of system of inequality based on race. It can occur in institutions such as public government bodies, private business corporations (such as media outlets), and universities (public and private). The term was introduced by Black Power activists Stokely Carmichael and Charles V. Hamilton in the late 1960s.[1] The definition given by William Macpherson within the report looking into the death of Stephen Lawrence was “the collective failure of an organisation to provide an appropriate and professional service to people because of their colour, culture, or ethnic origin”.

    Institutional racism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

  6. #86
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    re: Institutional Racism [W:344]

    Quote Originally Posted by German guy View Post
    I don't know... not sure if there is any music, no matter how commercial or trivial, that actively recommends you not to use your intellect (correct me if I'm wrong).
    I would say the same, for the most part. My definition was meant to describe music that is anti-intellectual, intentionally or not.

    On the other side, even very sophisticated music can be enjoyed on a non-intellectual level (you can like and love classic music and good jazz, yet not know much about it... that's what I do most of the time when I listen to that kind of music ). Sure, a lot of clasical music and a good part of jazz offer more than just that, unlike generic commercial music, so you can study it deeply and yet find new interesting twists in it amateurs don't recognize. But you don't need to be an expert to love Mozart.

    And then, when jazz music was new, there was a huge outcry by lovers and experts of classical music. I remember having read that one very famous professor and critic for classical music said "it's not music, it's vulgar noise, the sound of uncivilized sexual passions" and "negro music" or something to that extent. There was a similar outcry in the establishment when certain classical music was new, like when ... was it Mendelssohn? made the shift from classicism to romanticism, or when Wagner came up with his pompous operas. Now they're considered titans of classical music, and jazz a sophisticated style. Probably it always takes a generation that grew up with a new style to get old, before a new style is generally accepted.
    This is all true. My point is that some music is developed primarily as a means of making money and appealing to the lowest common denominator. Such music (which spans genres) usually just sounds good, but doesn't inspire any critical thinking. Right now, much of commercial pop, rap, country, rock and alternative music fits that description. It's also worth noting that I don't think that such anti-intellectualism is an inherently bad thing. My music library is filled with it.

  7. #87
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    re: Institutional Racism [W:344]

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    Lol, no I'm talking about the content and message of the music. The values and lifestyle it promotes.

    The very same things I was discussing in my original post. So no goal posts have been changed
    The content and message of the music in addition to the values and lifestyles the music promotes are separate from the lives of the musicians. So make up your mind, are you talking about the music or are you talking about the personal lives of musicians?

  8. #88
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    re: Institutional Racism [W:344]

    Quote Originally Posted by German guy View Post
    As far as I know, there was a lot of very commercial jazz on the height of swing in the 1930s, by many artists frowned upon by the more talented artists.

    And while there was no "commercial" classical music in the modern mass-market-radio sense, there were many commussioned works by composers who worked for nobles and kings, which had the mean focus of being pleasing to the ear, rather than being sophisticated ... just perfect for the king's breakfast or card games as background entertainment.
    That sounds a lot like the relationship the public has with rap, pop and country music among other genres. Some of it is all about just pleasing people and some of it is about less superficial aims. But today, jazz and classical music generally aren't made for mass markets so there's less of a distinction.

  9. #89
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    re: Institutional Racism [W:344]

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    The content and message of the music in addition to the values and lifestyles the music promotes are separate from the lives of the musicians.
    Not if their rapping about their lifestyle, crimes, and criminal activities ....

  10. #90
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    re: Institutional Racism [W:344]

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    Not if their rapping about their lifestyle, crimes, and criminal activities ....
    Actually, yes. In that case, their lives are still separate from their music. They are literally separate. Their lives may influence their music or their music may influence their lives, but their lives and their music are two separate things. Now, at the start of our conversation, you were talking about music. Then, you started talking about musician's lives. And now you're trying to argue they are the same. Since I like to stay focused in discussions and since you apparently don't, we probably don't have anything else to talk about.

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