View Poll Results: Does institutional racism currently exist in America?

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  • Yes, and it is rampant.

    14 22.95%
  • Yes, in quite a few places, but not everywhere.

    30 49.18%
  • For the most part, no. It exists but is rare.

    15 24.59%
  • Absolutely not.

    2 3.28%
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Thread: Institutional Racism [W:344]

  1. #101
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    re: Institutional Racism [W:344]

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    I'm not even surew where to begin with this. Clearly if their music is based on their lifestyle, it's strange to claim they are separate and one doesn't have a bearing over the other when we are discussing musical content here
    I'm done debating you and this is why. In the post of mine that you just quoted, I said, "Their lives may influence their music or their music may influence their lives, but their lives and their music are two separate things." Above, you cut that part of my post out and then accused me of claiming one's lifestyle doesn't have any bearing on their music. That you would accuse me of doing something when I specifically did the opposite and then cut the part of my post that demonstrates this is dishonest. You've been dishonest in this entire "discussion" and I've given you several chances to redeem yourself. We're done.

  2. #102
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    re: Institutional Racism [W:344]

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    I'm done debating you and this is why. In the post of mine that you just quoted, I said, "Their lives may influence their music or their music may influence their lives, but their lives and their music are two separate things."
    Right, you're trying to make a distinction without a difference. I'm pointing to the fact that they are glorifying hyper violent lifestyles that they actively live. You're going but their lives and music are literally two different things.

    I'm unsure why that even needs pointed out or what bearing it has on what I have written here.

    That you would accuse me of doing something when I specifically did the opposite and then cut the part of my post that demonstrates this is dishonest. You've been dishonest in this entire "discussion" and I've given you several chances to redeem yourself. We're done.
    But that is what you are trying to do. You originally claimed violent lyrics were no different than sexist ones. My reply was to point out these go beyond mere artistic representations of violence, but are an actual means to glorify the crimes committed by the artist themselves, and ultimately work to promote such a lifestyle to their fans. You then try to argue I am now discussing their lifestyle which is separate from their music, ignoring the fact that their lifestyle is the subject of their music and the later serves to promote it

    You speaking out of both sides of your mouth on the issue changes none of that.

  3. #103
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    re: Institutional Racism [W:344]

    Quote Originally Posted by ReformCollege View Post
    Let me ask you a question. Is a middle class black student less likely to succeed then a poor inner city white? Is a poor inner city black student less likely to succeed then a poor inner city white student?
    Depends on the students. They are all dealing with different types of privilege and disadvantage.

    To me equality isn't some rigid standard where literally everyone has the same results.
    That's not what it means to me either.

    We have done things to help poor blacks for the 50 something years since Dr. King made such a statement.
    Not nearly enough has been done.

    I'd argue that such racism isn't the primary roadblock for the black community as a whole, and if anything such affirmative action may be harmful by creating resentment by individuals who had nothing to do with the racism that persisted in the 1960s.
    People who are resentful of affirmative action have problems. They aren't my concern.

    Rather, I think a better solution is to improve the success rate of black Americans as a whole by reducing crime, improving schools, and reinstitutionalizing the family.
    Education should be improved, I agree. Reducing crime should happen as well - although reducing crime isn't at much of a solution as it is a problem. As far as the family, that's not something the government should be involving itself in.

    Not only will this help blacks succeed, but my bet is that it will most likely improve their perception as well, which will reduce instances of actual racism. Irish, Eastern European, and Jewish immigrants were all treated hostilely at one point in American history, and I don't think that was solved by singling those groups out and giving them extra benefits to make up for it.
    Actually, immigrants were singled out and given "extra benefits" when they got here. In fact, they are still getting benefits as there are programs, scholarships and other things specifically geared towards helping immigrants succeed. There's also the fact the Irish, Eastern Euro and Jewish immigrants had the benefit of looking a lot of like the white people who controlled the power structures in society so they (and especially their children) assimilated much more easily than blacks did. In fact, one of the ways that those groups made their way up in society was by embracing racism against blacks in solidarity with white Americans. Moreover, immigrants did not have to deal with the systemic racism and its consequences that blacks had to deal with. In other words, your comparison is a failure for several reasons.

  4. #104
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    re: Institutional Racism [W:344]

    Quote Originally Posted by ReformCollege View Post
    I consider "**** bitches" to be slightly offensive. I consider it more offensive when I actually see people adopting that attitude. I don't think the attitude "that boy is cute" is particularly all that harmful in its own right. But to each their own.
    I don't get offended easily. I also don't do superficial analyses of music. I see the music you're denigrating as a reflection of a culture with problems that some people don't want to address and would rather just treat themselves as superior to than look any deeper.

    As far as the "that boy is cute" line. Like I said, I don't find it offensive, but talk to certain feminists and you'll get a different perspective on why such airheadedness in mainstream music is perceived as a problem for improving perceptions of women.

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    re: Institutional Racism [W:344]

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    one of the ways that those groups made their way up in society was by embracing racism against blacks in solidarity with white Americans.
    what are you referring to?

  6. #106
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    re: Institutional Racism [W:344]

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    As far as the "that boy is cute" line. Like I said, I don't find it offensive, but talk to certain feminists and you'll get a different perspective on why such airheadedness in mainstream music is perceived as a problem for improving perceptions of women.
    right, but clearly there is a qualitative difference there to a guy rapping about shooting people and being heavily involved in drug dealing. And who has been implicated in six different murders, belongs to various street gangs, and who has been implicated in various drug distribution schemes

  7. #107
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    re: Institutional Racism [W:344]

    Institutional racism is most prevalent in law enforcement and education.

    African and Hispanic Americans are much more likely to be stopped by police, more likely to be charged and receive stiffer sentences, especially for drug offense, despite evidence that they do not offend more than whites.

    Education funding largely depends on the wealth of the surrounding communities, so low income, mostly minority, people are denied equal educational opportunities, despite having greater needs due to the problems associated with poverty.

  8. #108
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    re: Institutional Racism [W:344]

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    Education funding largely depends on the wealth of the surrounding communities, so low income, mostly minority, people are denied equal educational opportunities, despite having greater needs due to the problems associated with poverty.
    That's a ****ty policy, but not because it's in anyway racist. It affects all people of low means, regardless of color

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    re: Institutional Racism [W:344]

    Quote Originally Posted by Fisher View Post
    Yes, but not in the way people always think. I think holding minorities to a defacto lower standard of performance/expectation whether it comes to academics, college admissions or public assistance programs creates a negative feedback loop of sorts that causes a great many minorities to have lower expectations for themselves. It becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.
    the answer to the thread question lies in posts like this one ... Next question?

  10. #110
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    re: Institutional Racism [W:344]

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    1. That's a very (pervasive) surface analysis of hip-hop and rap. Rap, like every other form of art, tells stories. It is a reflection of the environment it is coming from. Therefore, to hold art responsible for inequality is wrongheaded. Such art may perpetuate problems that are already there, but it does not cause them. Therefore, the more important question to ask is why are the problems that rap and hip-hop describe there in the first place.
    The rap and hip-hop genres and the rap and hip-hop cultures are two different thing. I could point to Will Smith and note how upbeat and positive his rap is and the extreme lack of cuss words in his music. It's sub genres like gansta and others which are more pervasive than the tamer sub genres that have a holding back influence on many, especially those in the inner city and similar situations. Of course there then there is the tendency of such styles to to promote negative words and ideas like "nigger". Seriously, you can't claim "nigger" to be a racist word and then use it left and right.

    2. You are correct that some factions within hip-hop culture berate successful blacks as "too white." It is, however, inaccurate to generalize the culture as doing that as a whole. More than that, some people in White culture berate people who try to succeed as well. For examples, look at how many so-called "nerds" are treated in predominantly white environments. You can also look at how much of the right denigrates higher education. In other words, anti-success sentiments are pervasive in America, period. Because it isn't a uniquely Black American problem, it isn't a valid explanation for why black Americans, in particular, are unequal in society.
    You'll note that I did not generalized the culture as a whole. I noted it's influence and asked how much weight does it have. I'd like some samples of the "right" denigrating higher education.

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