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When will the Dollar Collapse ?

When will the US Dollar Collpase?

  • Total voters
    39
  • Poll closed .
Re: When will the Dollar Collpapse ?

Somerville said:
Sorry, you really aren't grasping reality. Were prices for basic goods lower in 1934 than in 1929? Were they the same? The point being, if a seller will take the paper money and provide a product, the paper money is not worthless. If you can buy more product in one year with X dollars than you could the year before - are you worse off?

Please note the 'Roll eyes" gif is a sarcasm indicator.
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You don't seem to understand the point. "Paper prices" become irrelevant when people stop caring about the numbers and see it for what it is; paper. Sellers get to a point where they just stop accepting it if there are alternatives like gold which can't simply be printed. If that wasn't the case, governments wouldn't care, and they wouldn't need to ban people from owning gold when it suits them. You're missing the point that when a currency collapses, it just becomes worthless paper, nothing more. Historically even in times when people don't trust fiat currency to be worth the paper it's printed on, they will always still be willing to accept precious metals. It's the way it has always been, the way it will be for the foreseeable future.
 
Re: When will the Dollar Collpapse ?

HumanBeing said:
You don't seem to understand the point. "Paper prices" become irrelevant when people stop caring about the numbers and see it for what it is; paper. Sellers get to a point where they just stop accepting it if there are alternatives like gold which can't simply be printed. If that wasn't the case, governments wouldn't care, and they wouldn't need to ban people from owning gold when it suits them. You're missing the point that when a currency collapses, it just becomes worthless paper, nothing more. Historically even in times when people don't trust fiat currency to be worth the paper it's printed on, they will always still be willing to accept precious metals. It's the way it has always been, the way it will be for the foreseeable future.
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I would say it is you who refuses to "understand the point."

If people can continue to feed themselves and family, if they have shelter and if they pay for these with paper money - said paper has value. Your response is that of the stereotypical goldbug who refuses to accept the reality that is shown to us by history and by the present day economy.

When in American history have citizens refused to accept paper currency when selling something?
 
Re: When will the Dollar Collpapse ?

Somerville said:
I would say it is you who refuses to "understand the point."

If people can continue to feed themselves and family, if they have shelter and if they pay for these with paper money - said paper has value. Your response is that of the stereotypical goldbug who refuses to accept the reality that is shown to us by history and by the present day economy.

When in American history have citizens refused to accept paper currency when selling something?
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Last time: Paper money doesn't get you anything if people refuse to accept it. That's why governments go to such great lengths to force people to buy and sell with it whether they like it or not. Your last question proves my point; when people want to switch, they are forced, by law, back into using paper. All fiat currencies only maintain their value through state sponsored threat of violence and imprisonment.
 
Re: When will the Dollar Collpapse ?

HumanBeing said:
Last time: Paper money doesn't get you anything if people refuse to accept it. That's why governments go to such great lengths to force people to buy and sell with it whether they like it or not. Your last question proves my point; when people want to switch, they are forced, by law, back into using paper. All fiat currencies only maintain their value through state sponsored threat of violence and imprisonment.
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Denial ain't just a river in Egypt

All fiat currencies only maintain their value because sellers will accept them as having value, because sellers are also buyers and know that by accepting paper money they too will be able to purchase what they want.

So once again: When in American history have citizens refused to accept paper currency when selling something?

Simply because you believe and hold tight to an article of faith, does not mean said belief is true in the real world.
 
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Re: When will the Dollar Collpapse ?

HumanBeing said:
Last time: Paper money doesn't get you anything if people refuse to accept it. That's why governments go to such great lengths to force people to buy and sell with it whether they like it or not. Your last question proves my point; when people want to switch, they are forced, by law, back into using paper. All fiat currencies only maintain their value through state sponsored threat of violence and imprisonment.
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Gold has no more intrinsic value than paper and is measured in dollars. If our currency collapses the only thing of value will be commodities like food, water, medicine, shelter, energy, other goods etc.

The worst probable events for the US would be if the gov debt keeps going unchecked and the FED's monetary policy weakens the dollar. The gov is trying to prevent stagflation, where there is little to no growth and the economy suffers from the impact of food and energy inflation.
 
Re: When will the Dollar Collpapse ?

grip said:
Gold has no more intrinsic value than paper and is measured in dollars. If our currency collapses the only thing of value will be commodities like food, water, medicine, shelter, energy, other goods etc.
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And resumes that support such.
 
Re: When will the Dollar Collpapse ?

Somerville said:
Denial ain't just a river in Egypt

All fiat currencies only maintain their value because sellers will accept them as having value, because sellers are also buyers and know that by accepting paper money they too will be able to purchase what they want.

So once again: When in American history have citizens refused to accept paper currency when selling something?

Simply because you believe and hold tight to an article of faith, does not mean said belief is true in the real world.
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You seem to have the whole thing backwards. Your paper is an article of faith, almost literally. People haven't been allowed to refuse paper. They have tried switching to precious metals, and the government confiscated it and replaced it with paper again. That is why it has its value. Using the fact that they have always accepted it as proof of your point just shows you don't even understand what the point actually is.

grip said:
Gold has no more intrinsic value than paper and is measured in dollars. If our currency collapses the only thing of value will be commodities like food, water, medicine, shelter, energy, other goods etc.
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Gold has more intrinsic value in the long term simply because it is a finite resource. I fully agree that in a total economic collapse it would be one of the least useful precious metals out there, but it would still hold value better than paper.

And I'd still appreciate an answer from either of you to the question: If people are so into fiat currency, why do people have to be forced to use it for everything? Look throughout history, right from the start the value of fiat currency was created by demanding that it be used to pay taxes. That meant sales people had no choice but to accept it. Then when people started noticing inflation (which is a product of fraudulent economies) and they switched back to metals, they had it all confiscated. This has been repeated over and over and over since the 10th century, yet for some reason you refuse to see what it means.
 
Re: When will the Dollar Collpapse ?

Lachean said:
No disagreement with your point on market prices, but as for why would you trade ammunition? Precisely for the reason you inadvertantly stated, because they will be "valuable." I wasn't suggesting bartering ammo for gold, that would more often be done the other way around I suspect.

I was thinking more along the lines of food or water for a few rounds, since a single 5 cent 22LR can mean one to several meals if you find a rabbit or other varmint, even small game and fur.
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See that's the issue with this idea, preppers like to keep gold on hand because they think people will want trade things like ammo, food, water, etc for it. Problem is that the gold has no inherent function that is useful, and therefore its worthless. It would be no different than a dollar bill, except maybe you could wipe your ass with a dollar bill if you needed to.

Do you not see the problem when you and everyone else has the same idea that they'll trade gold for things they'll need? That everyone will have gold and no one will want more of it.
 
Re: When will the Dollar Collpapse ?

Wiseone said:
See that's the issue with this idea, preppers like to keep gold on hand because they think people will want trade things like ammo, food, water, etc for it. Problem is that the gold has no inherent function that is useful, and therefore its worthless. It would be no different than a dollar bill, except maybe you could wipe your ass with a dollar bill if you needed to.

Do you not see the problem when you and everyone else has the same idea that they'll trade gold for things they'll need? That everyone will have gold and no one will want more of it.
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gold is not worthless, ..its universal.

it we were to have a barter system, and I need something from you, but I have nothing you want from me, I could trade gold or silver, because it can be exchanged for anything, thru the next barter you would engage in....and this is fact.

gold has never been worthless....never.

thru every civilization which has risen and fell, it has maintained value.

those who say gold is no good... are wrong....because history of 5,000 years is against them.
 
Re: When will the Dollar Collpapse ?

HumanBeing said:
Gold has more intrinsic value in the long term simply because it is a finite resource. I fully agree that in a total economic collapse it would be one of the least useful precious metals out there, but it would still hold value better than paper.

And I'd still appreciate an answer from either of you to the question: If people are so into fiat currency, why do people have to be forced to use it for everything? Look throughout history, right from the start the value of fiat currency was created by demanding that it be used to pay taxes. That meant sales people had no choice but to accept it. Then when people started noticing inflation (which is a product of fraudulent economies) and they switched back to metals, they had it all confiscated. This has been repeated over and over and over since the 10th century, yet for some reason you refuse to see what it means.
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In a total economic collapse, I can't see it having any value at first. In a partial collapse or slow dollar devaluation it could increase in value. Gold is used in cell phones, electronics, jewelry, medicine and dental as a practical source.

Paper currency became popular because of it's efficiency over coinage. Money was a natural evolution from the precious metals, jewels, spices and goods bartering system, since it could represent the same thing. I don't see a problem because you can still invest your wealth in other assets besides cash.
 
Re: When will the Dollar Collpapse ?

ernst barkmann said:
gold is not worthless, ..its universal.

it we were to have a barter system, and I need something from you, but I have nothing you want from me, I could trade gold or silver, because it can be exchanged for anything, thru the next barter you would engage in....and this is fact.

gold has never been worthless....never.

thru every civilization which has risen and fell, it has maintained value.

those who say gold is no good... are wrong....because history of 5,000 years is against them.
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In a situation where society/civilization or the dollar has collapsed and this guy's prepper plan goes into action, gold is worthless. If I'm leaving out of my back pack because the world has ended, what possible use do I have for gold?

Or in a less extreme situation where the dollar has lost all value, lets say to hyperinflation, people aren't going to rush to use gold instead. How do I know? Because throughout modern history when a country's currency goes to hell, people have never switched to gold. The Weimar Republic? The Germans didn't use gold. The Great Depression? Americans didn't switch to gold. People in Zimbabwe? Not using gold. Yugoslavia in the early 90s? People didn't switch to gold.

In fact I challenge you to find an example in history where a society has suffered a collapse in the value of its currency and has reverted back to the use of gold as a currency. It's never happened, and it won't happen in the US if the dollar collapses again.
 
Re: When will the Dollar Collpapse ?

Wiseone said:
In a situation where society/civilization or the dollar has collapsed and this guy's prepper plan goes into action, gold is worthless. If I'm leaving out of my back pack because the world has ended, what possible use do I have for gold?

Or in a less extreme situation where the dollar has lost all value, lets say to hyperinflation, people aren't going to rush to use gold instead. How do I know? Because throughout modern history when a country's currency goes to hell, people have never switched to gold. The Weimar Republic? The Germans didn't use gold. The Great Depression? Americans didn't switch to gold. People in Zimbabwe? Not using gold. Yugoslavia in the early 90s? People didn't switch to gold.

In fact I challenge you to find an example in history where a society has suffered a collapse in the value of its currency and has reverted back to the use of gold as a currency. It's never happened, and it won't happen in the US if the dollar collapses again.
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if the dollar collapses, the world in NOT ending.............its going to go on again and again, with gold being part of it, as it has for thousands of years, and it will have value and be traded.

just has copper, tin and the mix (bronze) have been traded.

those who believe gold is going to be worthless, are deluded, in their thinking.
 
Re: When will the Dollar Collpapse ?

ernst barkmann said:
if the dollar collapses, the world in NOT ending.............its going to go on again and again, with gold being part of it, as it has for thousands of years, and it will have value and be traded.

just has copper, tin and the mix (bronze) have been traded.

those who believe gold is going to be worthless, are deluded, in their thinking.
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Gold isn't worthless in the sense that it has market value because there is demand for it, but its value is hyper-inflated because people believe it has some magical properties relating to its value. When you look at iron or steel for example, it has value because its used in things like construction, auto plants, etc. Gold is used in the production of various products but its value doesn't reflect its usefulness in those regards, its way over valued because people want to own it they think its special.

But again, when a currency falls apart, it has never in history been replaced by a hard metal acting as a currency. There are dozens if not hundreds of examples in the last few hundred years of a currency losing all its value for one reason or another, and there is not a single example of the people replacing it with gold.

Seriously, if you're going to claim that if the American dollar were to lose all its value that it will be replaced by gold as a currency or that people will seek to trade valueable things that will feed them and keep them alive for a piece of metal, than show me an example.

Show me an example in history of this happening.

Show me.
 
Re: When will the Dollar Collpapse ?

Wiseone said:
Gold isn't worthless in the sense that it has market value because there is demand for it, but its value is hyper-inflated because people believe it has some magical properties relating to its value. When you look at iron or steel for example, it has value because its used in things like construction, auto plants, etc. Gold is used in the production of various products but its value doesn't reflect its usefulness in those regards, its way over valued because people want to own it they think its special.

But again, when a currency falls apart, it has never in history been replaced by a hard metal acting as a currency. There are dozens if not hundreds of examples in the last few hundred years of a currency losing all its value for one reason or another, and there is not a single example of the people replacing it with gold.

Seriously, if you're going to claim that if the American dollar were to lose all its value that it will be replaced by gold as a currency or that people will seek to trade valueable things that will feed them and keep them alive for a piece of metal, than show me an example.

Show me an example in history of this happening.

Show me.
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I am making the point, that some act as though gold, will have no value, and there is no reason to hold it.

gold holds a value, which can always be bartered over.

when paper currency fails, people will turn back to things which are intrinsic in value, and gold is one of them.

it is currently those who hold a leftist perspective that believe gold is nothing............they are wrong.
 
Re: When will the Dollar Collpapse ?

Commerce in PMs isn't practical. Fiat currency is flexible enough to engage everyone in the world. There is only so much PMs and the world needs far more money than that to continue ur never ceasing expansion of humans breeding and conspicuos consumption.

Still, PMs are sort of a frame of reference and in event of societal disorder, very likely to become the currency of choice. Particularly "junk silver".

Nobody is "forced" to use Fiat currency. It's simply a practical custom.



HumanBeing said:
You seem to have the whole thing backwards. Your paper is an article of faith, almost literally. People haven't been allowed to refuse paper. They have tried switching to precious metals, and the government confiscated it and replaced it with paper again. That is why it has its value. Using the fact that they have always accepted it as proof of your point just shows you don't even understand what the point actually is.


Gold has more intrinsic value in the long term simply because it is a finite resource. I fully agree that in a total economic collapse it would be one of the least useful precious metals out there, but it would still hold value better than paper.

And I'd still appreciate an answer from either of you to the question: If people are so into fiat currency, why do people have to be forced to use it for everything? Look throughout history, right from the start the value of fiat currency was created by demanding that it be used to pay taxes. That meant sales people had no choice but to accept it. Then when people started noticing inflation (which is a product of fraudulent economies) and they switched back to metals, they had it all confiscated. This has been repeated over and over and over since the 10th century, yet for some reason you refuse to see what it means.
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Re: When will the Dollar Collpapse ?

ernst barkmann said:
I am making the point, that some act as though gold, will have no value, and there is no reason to hold it.

gold holds a value, which can always be bartered over.

when paper currency fails, people will turn back to things which are intrinsic in value, and gold is one of them.

it is currently those who hold a leftist perspective that believe gold is nothing............they are wrong.
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Show me when that has happened before.

I got a sneaking feeling I'm going to be asking for an example for a while.

Gold is not nothing, but its also not what people make it out to be.
 
Re: When will the Dollar Collpapse ?

Wiseone said:
Show me when that has happened before.

I got a sneaking feeling I'm going to be asking for an example for a while.

Gold is not nothing, but its also not what people make it out to be.
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has not great civilizations risen and fallen, Egypt, Greece Rome, and every other one.

yet, when they met there end, gold continues on to be used by those who where part of those civilizations.

America is going to end to, when that day comes no one knows, but gold will have a value as it did before America came into being.

so those who preach gold is nothing... are wrong, because it will have its place long after you and I are gone from this world.

those who save ammo, food, water, things to barter, this a good, but it is also good to have something that is universal, and gold ,sliver, diamonds, and pearls, as other metals hold that spot.
 
Re: When will the Dollar Collpapse ?

ernst barkmann said:
has not great civilizations risen and fallen, Egypt, Greece Rome, and every other one.

yet, when they met there end, gold continues on to be used by those who where part of those civilizations.

America is going to end to, when that day comes no one knows, but gold will have a value as it did before America came into being.

so those who preach gold is nothing... are wrong, because it will have its place long after you and I are gone from this world.

those who save ammo, food, water, things to barter, this a good, but it is also good to have something that is universal, and gold ,sliver, diamonds, and pearls, as other metals hold that spot.
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Lets keep it to modern history, I know that gold continued to be a currency when Rome fell but it was also a currency before hand. Can you name an example of a modern state where gold was no longer because used for currency, but then we readopted after paper money fell out of favor?
 
Re: When will the Dollar Collpapse ?

Wiseone said:
Lets keep it to modern history, I know that gold continued to be a currency when Rome fell but it was also a currency before hand. Can you name an example of a modern state where gold was no longer because used for currency, but then we readopted after paper money fell out of favor?
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you and I are not on the same track.

what did i state in my opening?.................gold is not worthless.

it never has and never will be..........so my statement goes to those who keep on trying to down play gold as nothing, and that it cant be used for protection if times of upheaval and unrest.

it can, and those who have some, will be able to rest a little easier them those who don't.
 
Re: When will the Dollar Collpapse ?

ernst barkmann said:
you and I are not on the same track.

what did i state in my opening?.................gold is not worthless.

it never has and never will be..........so my statement goes to those who keep on trying to down play gold as nothing, and that it cant be used for protection if times of upheaval and unrest.

it can, and those who have some, will be able to rest a little easier them those who don't.
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In the unlikely event of a nuclear war, what good do you think possessing gold will do for the average person? A rock is a rock is a rock...
 
Re: When will the Dollar Collpapse ?

Interesting question...

As a precious metal, gold does have a lasting value. Problem is it's not easily exchangeable and not enough consumers have it to exchange for common, every day goods and services. It's great as an asset in your financial portfolio, but not a lot of people walk around with gold coins in their pockets. (Sarcasm)

In one way, Pres. Nixon was smart to peg the U.S. $1 to a common global commodity - oil. The problem, however, is that the price of oil can be easily manipulated IF one country or a few combine to work against another country's economic interest. No more perfect example in modern history can be found than what Iran attempted to do which was to convince OPEC counties like Iraq not to buy oil using the U.S. $1 which as most people know was a leading cause for America going to war w/Iraq - to secure oil reserves. (Not that getting rid of Saddam or securing WMD weren't important, but those reasons were a "mask" pulled over the eyes of many...a secondary reason to fight.)

My point is you really don't want gold as the standard of the world's reserve currency. It's just not something the common man can utilize on a daily basis.
 
Re: When will the Dollar Collpapse ?

Objective Voice said:
Interesting question...

As a precious metal, gold does have a lasting value. Problem is it's not easily exchangeable and not enough consumers have it to exchange for common, every day goods and services. It's great as an asset in your financial portfolio, but not a lot of people walk around with gold coins in their pockets. (Sarcasm)

In one way, Pres. Nixon was smart to peg the U.S. $1 to a common global commodity - oil. The problem, however, is that the price of oil can be easily manipulated IF one country or a few combine to work against another country's economic interest. No more perfect example in modern history can be found than what Iran attempted to do which was to convince OPEC counties like Iraq not to buy oil using the U.S. $1 which as most people know was a leading cause for America going to war w/Iraq - to secure oil reserves. (Not that getting rid of Saddam or securing WMD weren't important, but those reasons were a "mask" pulled over the eyes of many...a secondary reason to fight.)

My point is you really don't want gold as the standard of the world's reserve currency. It's just not something the common man can utilize on a daily basis.
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At what point did Nixon peg the dollar to oil prices? Nixon simply decoupled the dollar's value from gold, nothing more...
 
Re: When will the Dollar Collpapse ?

AlabamaPaul said:
In the unlikely event of a nuclear war, what good do you think possessing gold will do for the average person? A rock is a rock is a rock...
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will that war, end our earth?

if it does the point is moot about gold, however if not a new civilization will come forth from it and gold will continue as it always has.

gold is not going away.

again those that act as though gold is nothing and should have no bearing on what's going to happen in the future I see as wrong.
 
Re: When will the Dollar Collpapse ?

AlabamaPaul said:
At what point did Nixon peg the dollar to oil prices? Nixon simply decoupled the dollar's value from gold, nothing more...
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You may want to do a little more research on this topic. My reference source: "Bad Money," by Kevin Phillips
 
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