View Poll Results: When will the US Dollar Collpase?

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  • Under a year?

    4 7.84%
  • 2-10 years

    14 27.45%
  • 10-25 years

    4 7.84%
  • Not in our life time but eventually

    14 27.45%
  • Never

    15 29.41%
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Thread: When will the Dollar Collapse ?

  1. #121
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    Re: When will the Dollar Collapse ?

    Quote Originally Posted by CalGun View Post
    Or do you think it will?
    5 of 10 Top Economies in the World Drop the Dollar - BlackListedNews.com

    Considering 6 of the 12 largest world economies no longer need / use it as a reserve currency.
    Our saving grace being that most of those economies are headed for bigger trouble than we are, and so capital will still flow into the US as a flight to safety.

  2. #122
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    Re: When will the Dollar Collpapse ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    In the 1930s we were still on the gold standard, which is why the government had to seize that gold since without it they couldn't back their currency. That is not fiat currency, that is the gold standard. Fiat currency is when the currency itself has no value as a phsyical thing and is not redeemable for something like gold, it has value because the government passed a law that says it has value.

    If we had not been on the gold standard the government would not have had any area to seize that gold since the value of its currency would not have been dependant on its own gold supply.
    You're right that it wasn't a fiat currency at the time the ban started, but it became a fiat currency long before it finished which kind of moots your point....... in fact that entire argument falls apart when you realize that even as recently as last year your government was continuing to restrict gold ownership and come out with proposals that mimic the ban from the 30's.
    If you hate capitalism so much, then just write everything in lower case. Problem solved.

  3. #123
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    Re: When will the Dollar Collpapse ?

    It will not collapse in the foreseeable future, it will just keep dwindling.

    But with time - perhaps already by the time of the next meltdown- a devaluation may become increasingly tempting for policy makers, especially if "influential economists" keep presenting it as good way to climb out of crisis (Why Not The Worst? - NYTimes.com), even though the same economists used to claim exactly the opposite (http://18.7.29.232/bitstream/handle/...pdf?sequence=1

  4. #124
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    Re: When will the Dollar Collpapse ?

    "Modern peso and dollar currencies have a common origin in the 15th–19th century Spanish dollar, most continuing to use its sign, "$".[1] The Mexican peso is the 13th most traded currency in the world, the third most traded in the Americas, and the most traded currency in Latin America.[2] The current ISO 4217 code for the peso is MXN; prior to the 1993 revaluation (see below), the code MXP was used. The peso is subdivided into 100 centavos, represented by "¢". "


    "The Spanish dollar or Mexican peso was widely used in the early United States. By a decree of July 6, 1785, the value of the United States dollar was set to approximately match the Spanish dollar, both of which were based on the weight of silver in the coins.[3] The first U.S. dollar coins were not issued until April 2, 1792, and the peso continued to be officially recognized and used, along with other foreign coins, until February 21, 1857. In Canada, it remained legal tender, along with other foreign silver coins, until 1854 and continued to circulate beyond that date. [2] The Mexican peso also served as the model for the Straits dollar (now the Singapore/Brunei Dollar), the Hong Kong dollar, the Japanese yen and the Chinese yuan. [3] The term Chinese yuan refers to the round Spanish dollars, Mexican pesos and other 8 reales silver coins which saw use in China during the 19th and 20th century. The Mexican peso was also briefly legal tender in 19th century Siam, when government mints were unable to accommodate a sudden influx of foreign traders, and was exchanged at a rate of three pesos to one Thai baht."

    Mexican peso - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


    The Confederate dollar, often called a "Greyback", was first issued into circulation in April 1861, when the Confederacy was only two months old, and on the eve of the outbreak of the Civil War.

    At first, Confederate currency was accepted throughout the South as a medium of exchange with high purchasing power. As the war progressed, however, confidence in the ultimate success waned, the amount of paper money increased, and their dates of redemption were extended further into the future. Most Confederate currency carried the phrase across the top of the bill: "TWO YEARS AFTER THE RATIFICATION OF A TREATY OF PEACE BETWEEN THE CONFEDERATE STATES AND THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA" then across the middle, the "CONFEDERATE STATES OF AMERICA will pay" [the amount of the bill] "to BEARER." As the war progressed, the currency underwent the depreciation and soaring prices characteristic of inflation. For example, by the end of the war, a cake of soap could sell for as much as $50 and an ordinary suit of clothes was $2,700.[citation needed]

    Near the end of the war, the currency became practically worthless as a medium of exchange. This was because Confederate currency were bills of credit, as in the Revolutionary War, not secured or backed by any assets. Just as the currency issued by the Continental Congress was deemed worthless (witness the phrase "not worth a Continental;" and see The Federalist Papers, which also addressed this issue in the run-up to the ratification of the U.S. Constitution) because they were not backed by any hard assets, so, too, this became the case with Confederate currency.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confederate_money
    Last edited by yobarnacle; 05-28-13 at 02:12 AM.
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  5. #125
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    Re: When will the Dollar Collpapse ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    I never said gold is worthless I said its grossly overvalued, iron is not worthless but if people started stockpiling it in preparation for the end of the dollar so they could trade things for it, thus driving up the cost, I'd say it was grossly overpriced too.
    Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post #84
    See that's the issue with this idea, preppers like to keep gold on hand because they think people will want trade things like ammo, food, water, etc for it. Problem is that the gold has no inherent function that is useful, and therefore its worthless. It would be no different than a dollar bill, except maybe you could wipe your ass with a dollar bill if you needed to.

    Do you not see the problem when you and everyone else has the same idea that they'll trade gold for things they'll need? That everyone will have gold and no one will want more of it.

    you didn't say it was worthless?
    Last edited by Master PO; 05-28-13 at 02:11 AM.

  6. #126
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    Re: When will the Dollar Collpapse ?

    " In April 1865, the Civil War ended for most Americans. The war, and its various aspects, continues to capture the interest and imagination of many Americans who are fascinated by the battles, leaders, and strategy displayed during that conflict. Mysteries endure, too, including the ultimate disposition of the Confederate treasury."



    "The trek south of the Confederate government has been well documented in a number of first hand accounts written several years after the war. The authors were primarily participants in the evacuation of Richmond and they included Confederate cabinet officials, army officers, and treasury employees. Many of the accounts were published in the papers of the Southern Historical Society, in an effort to dispel rumors that Davis took the money for himself and his family. One treasury clerk ― in particular, Micajah Clark ― provided a detailed accounting of the disposition of the funds.

    An aspect of the treasure that Clark omitted concerned the fate of 39 kegs of Mexican silver dollars. These were coins that the Confederacy received through the sale of cotton to Mexico. The Mexican coins had been transported to Danville, Virginia, and when the Davis party was forced to move further south, primarily by wagon, the more than 9,000 pounds of silver would have considerably slowed down the procession. For this reason, the coins were almost certainly buried in Danville, and evidence suggests, they remain there today.

    The various narratives of the disbursement of the treasury end in Washington, Georgia on May 4, 1865, when two Confederate Navy officials, James A. Semple and Edward Tidball, were entrusted with $86,000 in gold. Jefferson Davis stated in his 1881 book, The Rise and Fall of the Confederate Government, that the “transfer of the treasure was made to Mr. Semple, a bonded officer of the Navy, and his assistant, Mr. Tidball.” Davis added only that the instructions to Semple were for him to attempt to deliver the gold abroad to the financial agent of the government. He was referring to the commercial house of Fraser, Trenholm & Company in Liverpool, England. Postmaster General John Reagan, who was with Davis in Danville, added more detail, recalling that the gold was to be hidden in the false bottom of a carriage. The mystery thus began when Semple and Tidball disappeared.

    Tidball, for his part, decided that the war was over for him, as he was seen a few days later heading north from Georgia, accompanied by a Confederate judge and a paroled army officer. The former assistant to Confederate Navy Secretary Stephen Mallory returned to Winchester, Virginia, where he built an elaborate house, Linden Farm, and became a prominent citizen. He received a pardon in August 1865, and in 1872, was elected to the Virginia House of Delegates. Given these events, and his extensive property, Tidball very likely profited from a disbursement of the treasury in Georgia. In fact, during a recent renovation of Linden Farm by its owner, a document found hidden in a wall confirms Tidball’s possession of a portion of the gold.

    For Semple, as with Tidball, history is mute on the activities of both men. In the 1938 book, Flight Into Oblivion, by A.J. Hanna, The Long Surrender by Burke Davis in 1985, and in 2001, An Honorable Defeat: the Last Days of the Confederate Government by Williams C. Davis, the mystery of the disappearing gold was unresolved. The lack of discussion in these books is not surprising. Semple did seem to disappear into the night, "

    "The evidence is strong that no one else managed to dig up the silver either, quite possibly because of where it was buried… in a cemetery area. Then too, given the volume and weight of the silver, the digging would have certainly been noticed by soldiers and townspeople, whether during the day or at night under the glow of kerosene lamps. Possibly, the fact that almost 1,400 Union soldiers, former prisoners warehoused in the town, had died of smallpox, dysentery, and other diseases and were buried nearby, could also have discouraged random digging.

    "In any case, caches of the silver coins have reportedly been detected at several locations in the Danville search area. A Colorado company, hired by a private individual, performed a geophysical survey and employed pulse induction instruments to identify the locations of the silver (and a small amount of gold). With the technology of today, why does the specie remain buried? For one reason only. The coins are buried on city-owned land, and Danville officials, concerned about disturbing graves, continue to refuse all requests to dig, even test holes.

    Perhaps the city will ultimately change its mind and enrich its coffers with the largest portion of the estimated $16 million in value."


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  7. #127
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    Re: When will the Dollar Collpapse ?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    you didn't say it was worthless?
    Context. I was talking about during a situation where you are going to trade gold for food, ammo, water, things you need to survive. But to clarifiy, outside of that situation gold is not worthless but it is very overvalued.

    Quote Originally Posted by HumanBeing View Post
    You're right that it wasn't a fiat currency at the time the ban started, but it became a fiat currency long before it finished which kind of moots your point....... in fact that entire argument falls apart when you realize that even as recently as last year your government was continuing to restrict gold ownership and come out with proposals that mimic the ban from the 30's.
    The US dollar didn't become a true fiat currency until Nixon took us off the gold standard.

  8. #128
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    Re: When will the Dollar Collpapse ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    Context. I was talking about during a situation where you are going to trade gold for food, ammo, water, things you need to survive. But to clarifiy, outside of that situation gold is not worthless but it is very overvalued.
    You seem to be deliberately forgetting the context. It started as you asking why someone who says they believe in gold wouldn't trade all their dollars for it. I gave the reason that the gold would only be confiscated and replaced with dollars at a loss in times of need, and you didn't come up with a single valid point to refute my statement.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone
    The US dollar didn't become a true fiat currency until Nixon took us off the gold standard.
    Well now you're just making up your own definition of fiat currency. "Fiat money is money that derives its value from government regulation or law." By definition, the dollar became fiat currency the moment they started banning ownership of gold to maintain the value of the dollar. Even in broader economic terms, any currency who's central bank relies on fractional banking is also fiat, which again eats the dates you're quoting.
    If you hate capitalism so much, then just write everything in lower case. Problem solved.

  9. #129
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    Re: When will the Dollar Collpapse ?

    Quote Originally Posted by HumanBeing View Post
    You seem to be deliberately forgetting the context. It started as you asking why someone who says they believe in gold wouldn't trade all their dollars for it. I gave the reason that the gold would only be confiscated and replaced with dollars at a loss in times of need, and you didn't come up with a single valid point to refute my statement.

    Well now you're just making up your own definition of fiat currency. "Fiat money is money that derives its value from government regulation or law." By definition, the dollar became fiat currency the moment they started banning ownership of gold to maintain the value of the dollar. Even in broader economic terms, any currency who's central bank relies on fractional banking is also fiat, which again eats the dates you're quoting.
    They confiscated gold, they did not ban ownership of it, don't oversell your point, because the dollar was based on gold. How can you have a currency based on gold if you have no gold? That wouldn't happen today because the US government doesn't need a reserve of gold on-hand to maintain the value of its dollar.

  10. #130
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    Re: When will the Dollar Collpapse ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    They confiscated gold, they did not ban ownership of it, don't oversell your point, because the dollar was based on gold. How can you have a currency based on gold if you have no gold? That wouldn't happen today because the US government doesn't need a reserve of gold on-hand to maintain the value of its dollar.
    OK, it's evident you haven't even read so much as a historical summary of the era let alone studied what actually happened.

    Private ownership of all but tiny amounts of gold was made illegal, this also included gold certificates that had been issued by the fed. People who refused to hand their gold in for below market rates as ordered by the government were fined and imprisoned. You say it wouldn't happen again today, yet Obama proposed the exact same thing last year. I'm done with this, at least until you can be bothered to take the time to learn a little more about the history of your own nation and economics in general.
    If you hate capitalism so much, then just write everything in lower case. Problem solved.

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