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Should employers be allowed to pay tipped employees less than minimum wage?

Should employers be allowed to pay tipped employees less than minimum wage?

  • Yes

    Votes: 22 41.5%
  • No

    Votes: 31 58.5%
  • Don't know

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    53

radcen

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Should employers be allowed to pay tipped employees less than minimum wage?

That's how it is in the vast majority of states, currently. Most states allow tipped employees to be paid an hourly wage less than minimum wage. Many of those, if not all, require that the employer make up the difference if the tips do not equal minimum wage, but in all my years inside and outside the restaurant industry I have never seen or heard of an employer actually doing so. Only a handful of states mandate paying of minimum wage for tipped employees. The question is, is this a good practice that should be continued, or should it be abolished?

Yes.
No.
Don't know.

Please note this is not a question about the minimum wage itself as a broad topic, nor is it a question about free market agreements between employers/employees, etc.
 
They should just pay them minimum wage and drop the idea of tips all together.
 
Unless they are working as an independent contractor, then there is still a state minimum wage for them--it is just lower--at least that is how I understand it to be in most states. I don't agree with the policy, but that is how it is. If most waitresses refused the deal, then they could change the system.
 
They should just pay them minimum wage and drop the idea of tips all together.

Servers always complain about the inequity in tipping. Some customers tip well, some tip crap, but it all evens out. They complain about the crappy tippers, of course.

However ask a server if they would forgo tips for a higher wage, and virtually every one I have ever asked this question says, "Not no, but hell no." They know that, in spite of their complaints, they do better when their tips are averaged into hourly averages than they would if they got only a straight hourly wage... even if the hourly wage were significantly above minimum wage.
 
I vote no. My tip is intended as a reward for the server, not a subsidy for the owner.
 
Servers always complain about the inequity in tipping. Some customers tip well, some tip crap, but it all evens out. They complain about the crappy tippers, of course.

However ask a server if they would forgo tips for a higher wage, and virtually every one I have ever asked this question says, "Not no, but hell no." They know that, in spite of their complaints, they do better when their tips are averaged into hourly averages than they would if they got only a straight hourly wage... even if the hourly wage were significantly above minimum wage.

I prefer the culture of no tipping, like in Japan. Quality service is not sacrificed by doing such. Tip jars are like guilt trips to many customers and they are popping up in some of the most ridiculous places nowadays.
 
I prefer the culture of no tipping, like in Japan. Quality service is not sacrificed by doing such. Tip jars are like guilt trips to many customers and they are popping up in some of the most ridiculous places nowadays.

Don't even get me started on tip jars. I have seen them at drive-thru windows.
 
Should employers be allowed to pay tipped employees less than minimum wage?

That's how it is in the vast majority of states, currently. Most states allow tipped employees to be paid an hourly wage less than minimum wage. Many of those, if not all, require that the employer make up the difference if the tips do not equal minimum wage, but in all my years inside and outside the restaurant industry I have never seen or heard of an employer actually doing so. Only a handful of states mandate paying of minimum wage for tipped employees. The question is, is this a good practice that should be continued, or should it be abolished?

Yes.
No.
Don't know.

Please note this is not a question about the minimum wage itself as a broad topic, nor is it a question about free market agreements between employers/employees, etc.

Yes, they should be allowed to pay less than minimum wage in tip jobs. Anyone who's ever stayed at a resort where tips are included? Or where they add 15% onto the checks for dinner? Knows that tips are the only things that motivate excellent service.
 
I think the minimum wage should apply but in return I think the employer is entitled to a percentage of the tips, just as the employee is entitled to a factor of the employers expenses.
 
Yes, they should be allowed to pay less than minimum wage in tip jobs. Anyone who's ever stayed at a resort where tips are included? Or where they add 15% onto the checks for dinner? Knows that tips are the only things that motivate excellent service.
Don't deny it's a motivator, but when the tip is automatic I can't help but think all motivation is lost (for those to whom money is the only or primary motivator).
 
Yes, they should be allowed to pay less than minimum wage in tip jobs. Anyone who's ever stayed at a resort where tips are included? Or where they add 15% onto the checks for dinner? Knows that tips are the only things that motivate excellent service.

Service in the US is sooo much better because of the tipping system. Service in Europe is like "here's your crap, stfu and have a nice day".
 
Don't even get me started on tip jars. I have seen them at drive-thru windows.

At a bar I used to frequent, on the weekends they'd put an employee on a stool in the men's room to hand you a paper towel. Sitting next to him was a pile of cheap peppermints and a tip jar.
 
I'd make two observations here:

1. I think it's almost criminal for businesses where tips are traditional for the business to pool tips and divy them up amongst all the staff, not just those who "serve" and in some cases the owner actually takes a cut.

2. I personally make a habit of tipping 20% and subtract from that based on the quality of service provided. If there is a mandatory percentage tip added on to the bill, I find out before I order, and I leave the restaurant and inform the host/owner of the reason why I'm leaving. Only government is legally able to "tax" my income and discretionary spending.
 
At a bar I used to frequent, on the weekends they'd put an employee on a stool in the men's room to hand you a paper towel. Sitting next to him was a pile of cheap peppermints and a tip jar.

The last place I'd pick up a communal offering of peppermints is the place where tiny particles of flushed excrement floats around the room.
 
1) Do something about it.

2) So not relevant to this thread.


well actually it is, becuase if you proposing that people can be paid less than the minimum wage, that means you have to go to the federal government.

so if this unconstitutional law was not in placed, employers would pay whatever the two parties agree on.
 
I'd make two observations here:

1. I think it's almost criminal for businesses where tips are traditional for the business to pool tips and divy them up amongst all the staff, not just those who "serve" and in some cases the owner actually takes a cut.

2. I personally make a habit of tipping 20% and subtract from that based on the quality of service provided. If there is a mandatory percentage tip added on to the bill, I find out before I order, and I leave the restaurant and inform the host/owner of the reason why I'm leaving. Only government is legally able to "tax" my income and discretionary spending.

I don't like when places pool tips, either. But, that's their business, so I won't make a decision based on that.

I've only experienced "mandatory" tips when part of a large group. Being part of said large group, I won't rock the boat, but as a matter of principle, and my own little Don Quixote-like crusade, I will tip ONLY what the minimum is and not a single penny more. Service might have been fantastic. Sorry, you demanded 'X' (which completely nullifies the purposes of a gratuity, IMO), you got 'X'.
 
well actually it is, becuase if you proposing that people can be paid less than the minimum wage, that means you have to go to the federal government.

so if this unconstitutional law was not in placed, employers would pay whatever the two parties agree on.

Are you even capable of thinking outside the Constitutional box for the purposes of discussion?
 
No, but you have to keep in mind that if the compensation a "tip position" receives over a periodic time does not equal to what they would receive as minimum wage, the employer has to reimburse the difference - therefore, they're not allowed to pay them below minimum wage.

If a waitress works the graveyard shift at a Waffle House that's off the beaten path, her tips have to make up the difference. Say the minimum wage for that state is 8 dollars an hour. She's paid 4 plus tips. If at the end of the week she works 40 hours, she makes less than 320 dollars (8 x 40), her employer is responsible. Say she made 100 bucks in tips for the week. Her base wage is 160 (4 x 40). Her tips are 100. Her employer has to pay her an additional 60 dollars for that work week (320 - (160 + 100)).

Therefore, no worries. Waitresses aren't getting paid an illegal amount.

It's not that I'd be against it. Some waitresses make ungodly amounts of money. Next to teachers, I consider waitressing to be the most overpaid vocation out there.
 
Don't even get me started on tip jars. I have seen them at drive-thru windows.

I worked my way through college as a waiter in a high-end restaurant. I worked for the tips (not minimum wage). The paltry paycheck (at the lower tier minimum wage) I got from my employer made good scratch paper.

My compensation/motivation in the job, however, were the tips. It took me three years working for a big CPA firm in New York before I was making what I was making on tips alone in that restaurant job. Accordingly, I have no problem with the two tiered minimum wage structure, with tips considered a part of the wait-staff's compensation.

Their are certain jobs where tips are custom (waiters, doorman, bell-hops, room-service, taxi, airport baggage handlers) and I can accept that. I do, however, get very annoyed at every Tom,Dick and Harry sticking a tip jar out in front the cash register. I do not tip at Starbucks or retail stores. Those jobs are minimum wage. If they want more money, they should demand it from their employer. When my attorney stuck a tip jar out in front of the receptionist desk.... well, that was really over the top (...and yes, that was an over the top story, as that has yet to happen... but seems to illustrate the trend).

OTH, staying at an old New York hotel not long ago, I encountered an elevator operator (all he did was push the button and hold the door), who I know was expecting a tip. Sorry, while this was once a tippable job, it shouldn't even been a job.... he got a smile and a thanks from me, but that was all.
 
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Are you even capable of thinking outside the Constitutional box for the purposes of discussion?

well what would be the point, becuase i would be thinking outside the supreme law of the land, and no law in higher than that.

i dont mean to demagog your thread, but i dont understand asking questions....... should something be allowed, when the whole matter is illegal.
 
I worked my way through college as a waiter in a high-end restaurant. I worked for the tips (not minimum wage). The paltry paycheck (at the lower tier minimum wage) I got from my employer made good scratch paper.

My compensation/motivation in the job, however, were the tips. It took me three years working for a big CPA firm in New York before I was making what I was making on tips alone in that restaurant job. Accordingly, I have no problem with the two tiered minimum wage structure, with tips considered a part of the wait-staff's compensation.

Their are certain jobs where tips are custom (waiters, doorman, bell-hops, room-service, taxi, airport baggage handlers) and I can accept that. I do, however, get very annoyed at every Tom,Dick and Harry sticking a tip jar out in front the cash register. I do not tip at Starbucks or retail stores. Those jobs are minimum wage. If they want more money, they should demand it from their employer. When my attorney stuck a tip jar out in front of the receptionist desk.... well, that was really over the top (...and yes, that was an over the top story, as that has yet to happen... but seems to illustrate the trend).

OTH, staying at an old New York hotel not long ago, they still have elevator operators (all he did was push the button and hold the door), who I know was expecting a tip. Sorry, while this was once a tippable job, it shouldn't even been a job.... he got a smile and a thanks from me, but that was all.

I'm still not sure why taxi drivers should be tipped.
 
Should employers be allowed to pay tipped employees less than minimum wage?

That's how it is in the vast majority of states, currently. Most states allow tipped employees to be paid an hourly wage less than minimum wage. Many of those, if not all, require that the employer make up the difference if the tips do not equal minimum wage, but in all my years inside and outside the restaurant industry I have never seen or heard of an employer actually doing so. Only a handful of states mandate paying of minimum wage for tipped employees. The question is, is this a good practice that should be continued, or should it be abolished?

Yes.
No.
Don't know.

Please note this is not a question about the minimum wage itself as a broad topic, nor is it a question about free market agreements between employers/employees, etc.


I say no.Minimum wage laws should apply to tipped employees.There is no telling how well someone will tip or whether or not a customer will actually tip or if they will make enough tips to account for the taxes taken out of their paycheck.
 
I'd make two observations here:

1. I think it's almost criminal for businesses where tips are traditional for the business to pool tips and divy them up amongst all the staff, not just those who "serve" and in some cases the owner actually takes a cut.

2. I personally make a habit of tipping 20% and subtract from that based on the quality of service provided. If there is a mandatory percentage tip added on to the bill, I find out before I order, and I leave the restaurant and inform the host/owner of the reason why I'm leaving. Only government is legally able to "tax" my income and discretionary spending.

Good morning, CJ. :2wave:

This is the first time I've heard that the owner takes a cut! How is that justified? :shock: It seems to me that it might cause the help to consider not turning in all their tips! Fair is fair!
 
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