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Should employers be allowed to pay tipped employees less than minimum wage?

Should employers be allowed to pay tipped employees less than minimum wage?

  • Yes

    Votes: 22 41.5%
  • No

    Votes: 31 58.5%
  • Don't know

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    53
Then you better speak up if the government ever tries to drive the economy into the ground by giving in to these people *itching for $15/hr minimum wages as we speak. In particular, places like fast food that keep their prices low because of the low skill level of employees and cheap ingredients will have to jack their prices if forced to pay employees double their value.

Well, making fast food more expensive isn't necessarily a bad thing......

But the reality is, as the minimum wage climbs so does the pressure of owners to automate as much as possible. Maybe one day a few minimum wage employees and a couple low paid supervisors might be all that is needed to keep a McDonalds open 24h. Never discount technology to make jobs obsolete.
 
Never discount technology to make jobs obsolete.
Never discount government regulation of private businesses to make jobs obsolete. Without minimum wage, there would always be a question of whether it's cheaper to hire and maintain a machine than a person.

Again, for anyone who didn't see my initial link to it: Edgar the Exploiter - YouTube
 
Then you better speak up if the government ever tries to drive the economy into the ground by giving in to these people *itching for $15/hr minimum wages as we speak. In particular, places like fast food that keep their prices low because of the low skill level of employees and cheap ingredients will have to jack their prices if forced to pay employees double their value.

'MacDonalds' et.al. are international. There's lots of places where they pay a livable (if barely) minimum wage and I've never heard of anywhere they can't make enough money to stay open. I've seen fast-food joints in Vancouver full at lunchtime and there was three food carts, with no overhead and no employees, on the sidewalk along the block in front.
Maybe there's a bit of fear-mongering involved if someone is telling you that the minimum-wage laws will 'drive the economy into the ground'.
 
I'm curious what kind of wages we would see if there were no minimum wages laws. How much would the part time employee at McDonalds make without a minimum wage law?

Why not do away with it and see how low the unskilled are willing to go? Maybe they will be willing to go so low as to be competitive with the global unskilled and jobs will start to pour into the USA. We would then just have to get the other drags on employers, like OSHA and EPA, to be equal to the global standard and we will then be competitive on a global level again. But would the skilled workers really want to live in that world?

It's called the race to the bottom and no one wins that race.
 
yes, it is no different that paying salesmen a commission versus a hourly wage
 
Should employers be allowed to pay tipped employees less than minimum wage?

That's how it is in the vast majority of states, currently. Most states allow tipped employees to be paid an hourly wage less than minimum wage. Many of those, if not all, require that the employer make up the difference if the tips do not equal minimum wage, but in all my years inside and outside the restaurant industry I have never seen or heard of an employer actually doing so.
It's Federal law (Fair Labor Standards Act) that any employer taking the tip credit must make up any difference between actual tips and the minimum wage.


I'd make two observations here:

1. I think it's almost criminal for businesses where tips are traditional for the business to pool tips and divy them up amongst all the staff, not just those who "serve" and in some cases the owner actually takes a cut.
It is criminal in the US. Tip pools are allowed, but ONLY for those who normally receive tips. Management, cooks, dishwashers, accountants, etc cannot legally participate in a tip pool.

2. I personally make a habit of tipping 20% and subtract from that based on the quality of service provided. If there is a mandatory percentage tip added on to the bill, I find out before I order, and I leave the restaurant and inform the host/owner of the reason why I'm leaving. Only government is legally able to "tax" my income and discretionary spending.
A mandatory percentage added on is not legally a tip, but a service charge, and the management can do whatever it wants with it and is under no obligation to share it with the server.
 
Don't deny it's a motivator, but when the tip is automatic I can't help but think all motivation is lost (for those to whom money is the only or primary motivator).

A tip is never automatic though.

Salaries are a discussion for employers and their employees. Tipping is something generous I do because I was especially satisfied with the services I received. It doesn't take much to earn a tip from me but I have no issues at all in not leaving a tip under any circumstance.
 
Should employers be allowed to pay tipped employees less than minimum wage?

That's how it is in the vast majority of states, currently. Most states allow tipped employees to be paid an hourly wage less than minimum wage. Many of those, if not all, require that the employer make up the difference if the tips do not equal minimum wage, but in all my years inside and outside the restaurant industry I have never seen or heard of an employer actually doing so. Only a handful of states mandate paying of minimum wage for tipped employees. The question is, is this a good practice that should be continued, or should it be abolished?

Yes.
No.
Don't know.

Please note this is not a question about the minimum wage itself as a broad topic, nor is it a question about free market agreements between employers/employees, etc.

I say yes because Im against minimum wage. So anything that gives employers some more freedom is ok by me. And yes, including enslaving children and puppies, moohaha!
 
I'm curious what kind of wages we would see if there were no minimum wages laws. How much would the part time employee at McDonalds make without a minimum wage law?

Why not do away with it and see how low the unskilled are willing to go? Maybe they will be willing to go so low as to be competitive with the global unskilled and jobs will start to pour into the USA. We would then just have to get the other drags on employers, like OSHA and EPA, to be equal to the global standard and we will then be competitive on a global level again. But would the skilled workers really want to live in that world?

It's called the race to the bottom and no one wins that race.

The employer and the consumer win.
 
I'm curious what kind of wages we would see if there were no minimum wages laws. How much would the part time employee at McDonalds make without a minimum wage law?

Why not do away with it and see how low the unskilled are willing to go? Maybe they will be willing to go so low as to be competitive with the global unskilled and jobs will start to pour into the USA. We would then just have to get the other drags on employers, like OSHA and EPA, to be equal to the global standard and we will then be competitive on a global level again. But would the skilled workers really want to live in that world?

It's called the race to the bottom and no one wins that race.

I think the problem with liberalism is that you have to believe in such nonsense all the time.
 
It is criminal in the US. Tip pools are allowed, but ONLY for those who normally receive tips. Management, cooks, dishwashers, accountants, etc cannot legally participate in a tip pool.

Almost.

It is not required that all employees who share in tips must themselves receive tips from customers.....The U.S. Department of Labor's position is that tip-pooling / tip-sharing arrangements are permissible as long as the employees sharing in the tips have somehow participated in serving the customers who left the tips. Courts cases regarding tip-sharing arrangements focus on whether the employee interacted with the customer, assisted in providing the customer with a pleasurable dining experience, and/or provided "direct table service" before or during the meal, while the customer was seated. It is a good practice to put the tip-sharing policy in writing and have everyone acknowledge it.
Tip-Pooling / Tip-Sharing
 
A tip is never automatic though.

A problem does exist, however, when bad waiters/waitresses think that gratuities are automatic. I didn't leave a tip once when I was at a restaurant for 20 minutes without a refill, my food took forever, and I had to wait for my check. She glared at me and I just went on my merry way.
 
We were referring to the times when a menu has a notation that says, "Parties of 8 or more will be automatically assessed an 18% gratuity."

It has never come up but I wouldn't pay it if I felt I hadn't received the service implied with it.
 
There's an easy way around it - if you go there with more than 8, split up into 2 groups.
 
It has never come up but I wouldn't pay it if I felt I hadn't received the service implied with it.
I have heard conflicting stories regarding opposition to this. I have heard of some who object and the restaurant backs down. I have heard some who object, and have the police called on them.


There's an easy way around it - if you go there with more than 8, split up into 2 groups.
I don't dine in large groups often, but when I have they count the number in the overall party seated and socializing together, not the separate checks.
 
I have heard conflicting stories regarding opposition to this. I have heard of some who object and the restaurant backs down. I have heard some who object, and have the police called on them.



I don't dine in large groups often, but when I have they count the number in the overall party seated and socializing together, not the separate checks.

"Yeah waitress, these 6 are with me. I just met those others in the parking lot."
 
Should employers be allowed to pay tipped employees less than minimum wage?

.

Since typically a person getting less than Minimum Wage plus tips makes a lot more than a people getting just minimum wage, I think it should stay that way it is. When my wife worked as a waitress, she got something like $2 an hour plus tips and she was totally happy with that since the tips put her way over minimum wage. She does make sure I always tip well (if the service was good) since she knows what that job is like.

Additionally it does usually improve service for the customers if a waitresses' pay is directly linked to her performance.
 
Since typically a person getting less than Minimum Wage plus tips makes a lot more than a people getting just minimum wage, I think it should stay that way it is. When my wife worked as a waitress, she got something like $2 an hour plus tips and she was totally happy with that since the tips put her way over minimum wage. She does make sure I always tip well (if the service was good) since she knows what that job is like.

Additionally it does usually improve service for the customers if a waitresses' pay is directly linked to her performance.

In my experiences and observations current and former servers almost always tip well.
 
They should just pay them minimum wage and drop the idea of tips all together.

Oh wow, communism at it's finest. ****ty and good waiters get paid alike.
 
Oh wow, communism at it's finest. ****ty and good waiters get paid alike.

No, bad waiters ought to get fired, just like all employees.
 
Oh wow, communism at it's finest. ****ty and good waiters get paid alike.

The ****ty waiters should be fired after you complain to the manager, I shouldn't have to pay someone to do their job right.
 
They should just pay them minimum wage and drop the idea of tips all together.

You must be joking. Apparently you don't know anyone who waits tables. You'd have to pay people at LEAST $20 an hour if they weren't tipped. And be willing to fire those who didn't know how to move their asses.
 
You must be joking. Apparently you don't know anyone who waits tables. You'd have to pay people at LEAST $20 an hour if they weren't tipped. And be willing to fire those who didn't know how to move their asses.

I know 3 waitresses that make 1000 - 1200 per week
 
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