View Poll Results: Should employers be allowed to pay tipped employees less than minimum wage?

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Thread: Should employers be allowed to pay tipped employees less than minimum wage?

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    Re: Should employers be allowed to pay tipped employees less than minimum wage?

    yes, it is no different that paying salesmen a commission versus a hourly wage

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    Re: Should employers be allowed to pay tipped employees less than minimum wage?

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    Should employers be allowed to pay tipped employees less than minimum wage?

    That's how it is in the vast majority of states, currently. Most states allow tipped employees to be paid an hourly wage less than minimum wage. Many of those, if not all, require that the employer make up the difference if the tips do not equal minimum wage, but in all my years inside and outside the restaurant industry I have never seen or heard of an employer actually doing so.
    It's Federal law (Fair Labor Standards Act) that any employer taking the tip credit must make up any difference between actual tips and the minimum wage.


    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    I'd make two observations here:

    1. I think it's almost criminal for businesses where tips are traditional for the business to pool tips and divy them up amongst all the staff, not just those who "serve" and in some cases the owner actually takes a cut.
    It is criminal in the US. Tip pools are allowed, but ONLY for those who normally receive tips. Management, cooks, dishwashers, accountants, etc cannot legally participate in a tip pool.

    2. I personally make a habit of tipping 20% and subtract from that based on the quality of service provided. If there is a mandatory percentage tip added on to the bill, I find out before I order, and I leave the restaurant and inform the host/owner of the reason why I'm leaving. Only government is legally able to "tax" my income and discretionary spending.
    A mandatory percentage added on is not legally a tip, but a service charge, and the management can do whatever it wants with it and is under no obligation to share it with the server.
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    Re: Should employers be allowed to pay tipped employees less than minimum wage?

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    Don't deny it's a motivator, but when the tip is automatic I can't help but think all motivation is lost (for those to whom money is the only or primary motivator).
    A tip is never automatic though.

    Salaries are a discussion for employers and their employees. Tipping is something generous I do because I was especially satisfied with the services I received. It doesn't take much to earn a tip from me but I have no issues at all in not leaving a tip under any circumstance.

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    Re: Should employers be allowed to pay tipped employees less than minimum wage?

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    Should employers be allowed to pay tipped employees less than minimum wage?

    That's how it is in the vast majority of states, currently. Most states allow tipped employees to be paid an hourly wage less than minimum wage. Many of those, if not all, require that the employer make up the difference if the tips do not equal minimum wage, but in all my years inside and outside the restaurant industry I have never seen or heard of an employer actually doing so. Only a handful of states mandate paying of minimum wage for tipped employees. The question is, is this a good practice that should be continued, or should it be abolished?

    Yes.
    No.
    Don't know.

    Please note this is not a question about the minimum wage itself as a broad topic, nor is it a question about free market agreements between employers/employees, etc.
    I say yes because Im against minimum wage. So anything that gives employers some more freedom is ok by me. And yes, including enslaving children and puppies, moohaha!

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    Re: Should employers be allowed to pay tipped employees less than minimum wage?

    Quote Originally Posted by kenc View Post
    I'm curious what kind of wages we would see if there were no minimum wages laws. How much would the part time employee at McDonalds make without a minimum wage law?

    Why not do away with it and see how low the unskilled are willing to go? Maybe they will be willing to go so low as to be competitive with the global unskilled and jobs will start to pour into the USA. We would then just have to get the other drags on employers, like OSHA and EPA, to be equal to the global standard and we will then be competitive on a global level again. But would the skilled workers really want to live in that world?

    It's called the race to the bottom and no one wins that race.
    The employer and the consumer win.

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    Re: Should employers be allowed to pay tipped employees less than minimum wage?

    Quote Originally Posted by kenc View Post
    I'm curious what kind of wages we would see if there were no minimum wages laws. How much would the part time employee at McDonalds make without a minimum wage law?

    Why not do away with it and see how low the unskilled are willing to go? Maybe they will be willing to go so low as to be competitive with the global unskilled and jobs will start to pour into the USA. We would then just have to get the other drags on employers, like OSHA and EPA, to be equal to the global standard and we will then be competitive on a global level again. But would the skilled workers really want to live in that world?

    It's called the race to the bottom and no one wins that race.
    I think the problem with liberalism is that you have to believe in such nonsense all the time.

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    Re: Should employers be allowed to pay tipped employees less than minimum wage?

    [QUOTE=pinqy;1061861319]
    It is criminal in the US. Tip pools are allowed, but ONLY for those who normally receive tips. Management, cooks, dishwashers, accountants, etc cannot legally participate in a tip pool.
    Almost.

    It is not required that all employees who share in tips must themselves receive tips from customers.....The U.S. Department of Labor's position is that tip-pooling / tip-sharing arrangements are permissible as long as the employees sharing in the tips have somehow participated in serving the customers who left the tips. Courts cases regarding tip-sharing arrangements focus on whether the employee interacted with the customer, assisted in providing the customer with a pleasurable dining experience, and/or provided "direct table service" before or during the meal, while the customer was seated. It is a good practice to put the tip-sharing policy in writing and have everyone acknowledge it.
    Tip-Pooling / Tip-Sharing
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    Re: Should employers be allowed to pay tipped employees less than minimum wage?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dapper Andy View Post
    A tip is never automatic though.
    We were referring to the times when a menu has a notation that says, "Parties of 8 or more will be automatically assessed an 18% gratuity."


    [QUOTE=MaggieD;1061861897]
    Quote Originally Posted by pinqy View Post
    Usually, tough, the extent of the employee's participation is hearing, "We pool tips.", with the unspoken remainder being "...and if you don't like it there's the door."
    If you claim sexual harassment to be wrong, yet you defend anyone on your side for any reason,
    then you are a hypocrite and everything you say on the matter is just babble.

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    Re: Should employers be allowed to pay tipped employees less than minimum wage?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dapper Andy View Post
    A tip is never automatic though.
    A problem does exist, however, when bad waiters/waitresses think that gratuities are automatic. I didn't leave a tip once when I was at a restaurant for 20 minutes without a refill, my food took forever, and I had to wait for my check. She glared at me and I just went on my merry way.

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    Re: Should employers be allowed to pay tipped employees less than minimum wage?

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    We were referring to the times when a menu has a notation that says, "Parties of 8 or more will be automatically assessed an 18% gratuity."
    It has never come up but I wouldn't pay it if I felt I hadn't received the service implied with it.

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