View Poll Results: Should employers be allowed to pay tipped employees less than minimum wage?

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    41 59.42%
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Thread: Should employers be allowed to pay tipped employees less than minimum wage?

  1. #51
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    Re: Should employers be allowed to pay tipped employees less than minimum wage?

    Quote Originally Posted by HumanBeing View Post
    Minimum wage is just another example of counter productive government interference and prevention of free market economics.

    Do you not care that because I'm forced to pay you more than your natural market worth I end up hiring less people overall? Do you not care that due to being forced to overpay one group of people, another group will be left completely unemployed for the foreseeable future?

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    If the minimum wage is too much for you to pay your people, get out of the business and make room for a better businessman. Geez, maybe you'd like to import Somalian families and set up a sweatshop in Texas making hats for Nike.
    Overpay? Minimum wage is overpay? Do you hear yourself?

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    Re: Should employers be allowed to pay tipped employees less than minimum wage?

    Quote Originally Posted by HumanBeing View Post
    No, my comment implies that I might need 5, and there might be 5 people willing to work for what I'd like to offer, but instead I'll only hire 3. Watch the video, it explains the concept clearly.

    Or, to put it another way: Minimum wages create an artificial economy where wages aren't tied to worker productivity in any way. In the long term, that can only cause harm.

    If you can't make enough money in your business to pay minimum wage you don't deserve to be in business. Simple. This is one of the differences between the US and Pakistan.

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    Re: Should employers be allowed to pay tipped employees less than minimum wage?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grand Mal View Post
    If the minimum wage is too much for you to pay your people, get out of the business and make room for a better businessman. Geez, maybe you'd like to import Somalian families and set up a sweatshop in Texas making hats for Nike.
    Overpay? Minimum wage is overpay? Do you hear yourself?
    It depends on the context and the work. I don't know what minimum wage is in the US, but after having to pay unskilled Australians over $20 per hour for work that anyone could do, I ended up moving operations to Cambodia (where there is also a minimum wage, but it's more reasonable, and people are actually grateful for the employment). You're seeing the same thing happen with US jobs, but you seem to be having trouble connecting the dots.

    You can't make a minimum wage for the entire world, so all you're doing at this point is putting your nation out of business. Again, I'd urge you to watch the video I linked to, it clearly explains why your idea may sound good in theory, but is counter productive in practice. You are reducing the wages for skilled workers, and reducing the overall number of jobs available to your citizens.

    You can tell me I'm not good at business and that I should shut up shop, but the fact is I'm roughly 30 years old, I've already paid millions and millions of dollars in taxes, and have provided jobs for over a hundred people. What are you doing for the economy that is so much better?
    Last edited by HumanBeing; 05-27-13 at 02:02 AM.
    If you hate capitalism so much, then just write everything in lower case. Problem solved.

  4. #54
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    Re: Should employers be allowed to pay tipped employees less than minimum wage?

    Quote Originally Posted by HumanBeing View Post
    It depends on the context and the work. I don't know what minimum wage is in the US, but after having to pay unskilled Australians over $20 per hour for work that anyone could do, I ended up moving operations to Cambodia (where there is also a minimum wage, but it's more reasonable, and people are actually grateful for the employment). You're seeing the same thing happen with US jobs, but you seem to be having trouble connecting the dots.

    You can't make a minimum wage for the entire world, so all you're doing at this point is putting your nation out of business. Again, I'd urge you to watch the video I linked to, it clearly explains why your idea may sound good in theory, but is counter productive in practice. You are reducing the wages for skilled workers, and reducing the overall number of jobs available to your citizens.

    You can tell me I'm not good at business and that I should shut up shop, but the fact is I'm roughly 30 years old, I've already paid millions and millions of dollars in taxes, and have provided jobs for over a hundred people. What are you doing for the economy that is so much better?
    I'm in Canada.
    You relocating business to Cambodia for the cheap labour pretty much ends this discussion. I'd rather not incur the ban from this forum I'd incur by expressing my opinion.
    Cheers.

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    Re: Should employers be allowed to pay tipped employees less than minimum wage?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grand Mal View Post
    I'm in Canada.
    You relocating business to Cambodia for the cheap labour pretty much ends this discussion. I'd rather not incur the ban from this forum I'd incur by expressing my opinion.
    Cheers.
    Free market economics bro. As I said, it was work that could have been done by anyone. Skilled labor doesn't require minimum wage to exist because it's economically sustainable on its own, the natural market price is higher than the state minimum anyway. Except, setting high minimum wages for unskilled workers means there is less money for the skilled workers, so you're screwing them over too.

    If you don't think I should have relocated, then what do you think I should have done instead? Just waited for my competitors to do it first then let me and all my staff go out of business due to being financially uncompetitive? Seriously, I'd love to know what you think I should have done if you have such a problem with what I did. I wouldn't have done it if I could have just paid them $15 per hour instead of $20, then they'd all still be happily employed. I had to do it because of exactly the policies I'm arguing against. You sound like you want everyone to be paid a million bucks an hour and for employers not to be allowed to make foreign investments.

    No one is going to ban you for expressing an opinion unless you can't do it without resorting to insults.
    If you hate capitalism so much, then just write everything in lower case. Problem solved.

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    Re: Should employers be allowed to pay tipped employees less than minimum wage?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grand Mal View Post
    Personally, when I tip it's a kind of thank-you for good service, between me and the server. I don't want to subsidize the owner so he can pay his people less. If I knew that was happening I'd stop tipping and if everyone did the place would eventually not be able to get servers.
    If you don't like the idea of waitstaff depending on tips for their income, then don't tip. But, for God's sake! Don't sit at one of my tables.
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    Re: Should employers be allowed to pay tipped employees less than minimum wage?

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    The majority of waiters/waitresses I know may complain about their hourly salary, but in most cases they rely on the money they get from tips than their normal pay. Why? Because although they are suppose to report their tips not only to their boss but on their taxes, few do. And that means more "unreported income" for them.

    Now, the flip side to this argument is if the waiter/waitress doesn't bring home enough in tips to make ends meet their normal pay usually isn't enough to make up the difference. So, it's a catch-22...damned if they complain too loudly, damned if they keep their mouth shut and don't make enough in tips to cover their expenditures. To put it mildly, most folks who work for tips would rather get paid that way than on a typical average wage because depending on how things go (i.e., holiday, special occasion, major sporting event, etc.) they stand to make more money in a few days than some folks make in a week at or even above minimum wage.

    I guess when it really comes down to it, if you're good at what you do in whatever industry you do it in be it restaurant, night club, cabby, barber or even shoeshine boy, the tips should role in. And if you're able to keep most of it all to yourself, you make out like a bandit...literally. To sum it up, I'd say tips are "extra" income for "a job well-done". So, my answer would be "NO". An honest day's work for an honest day's pay. But when you're being paid for less than your worth, the customer's make up the difference which really shouldn't be a "difference maker" in pay at all. It's earnings- an added bonus as it were - for good customer service.

    Note: I mistakenly voted "Yes" when I meant "No".
    Virtually every server I have ever known does NOT report all their tips to the IRS. They have to report something, because 0% is simply not believable, but they don't report it all.

    I have seen a recent trend on some pro-tipping websites promoting that customers who pay their checks via credit cards to separate and leave the tip in cash, precisely so the exact amount is hidden and non-traceable. 8% is expected by the IRS (or was, it may have since changed), but most customers tip way beyond that.

    Personally, I find that offensive. They're actively advocating recruiting customers to be accomplices in tax evasion.
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  8. #58
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    Re: Should employers be allowed to pay tipped employees less than minimum wage?

    in Quebec there are 2 minimum wages one for regular workers and another lower one for tip earners. Been like that for a long time.
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  9. #59
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    Re: Should employers be allowed to pay tipped employees less than minimum wage?

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    If you don't like the idea of waitstaff depending on tips for their income, then don't tip. But, for God's sake! Don't sit at one of my tables.
    (grin!) No, I don't have a problem with servers depending on tips. I just don't like the idea of the owner depending on tips to pay his staff. He should kick in at least minimum wage, my opinion.

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    Re: Should employers be allowed to pay tipped employees less than minimum wage?

    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post
    I vote no. My tip is intended as a reward for the server, not a subsidy for the owner.
    I agree, but the server has to *EARN* the tip, it should never be something that's simply expected because they did their job. A tip ought to be a reward for going above and beyond the call of duty.
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