View Poll Results: Should employers be allowed to pay tipped employees less than minimum wage?

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Thread: Should employers be allowed to pay tipped employees less than minimum wage?

  1. #151
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    Re: Should employers be allowed to pay tipped employees less than minimum wage?

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Very good. Next: "And don't go asking for any God damn handouts"
    Don't go asking for handouts but if are struggling or unemployed there are government programs to help you.

  2. #152
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    Re: Should employers be allowed to pay tipped employees less than minimum wage?

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    Servers always complain about the inequity in tipping. Some customers tip well, some tip crap, but it all evens out. They complain about the crappy tippers, of course.

    However ask a server if they would forgo tips for a higher wage, and virtually every one I have ever asked this question says, "Not no, but hell no." They know that, in spite of their complaints, they do better when their tips are averaged into hourly averages than they would if they got only a straight hourly wage... even if the hourly wage were significantly above minimum wage.
    What's funny is that a lot of people don't tip if they think the service isn't worth it - apparently that doesn't dawn on some servers.
    A screaming comes across the sky.
    It has happened before, but there is nothing to compare it to now.
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  3. #153
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    Re: Should employers be allowed to pay tipped employees less than minimum wage?

    Quote Originally Posted by 0bserver92 View Post
    Don't go asking for handouts
    That's enough progress for today...

    Muahahahaaa

  4. #154
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    Re: Should employers be allowed to pay tipped employees less than minimum wage?

    Quote Originally Posted by Verthaine View Post
    I did,and they gave me their reason.It was good enough for me.
    But it makes no sense unless you were going to eliminate tips.

    It also makes no business sense to raise my dish prices and drive away loyal big spending longtime costumers.
    Then how were you proposing to pay minimum wage without raising prices?

    And you know what makes sense in the restaurant business how?
    It's called "math". $7.25 +X > $2.13 +X There's no way around that. How anyone could call that a paycut is incomprehensible.

    For the waiters to make what they make on average a week on tips,I'd have to raise their pay beyond minimum wage.
    But they'd still be making tips. Or are you saying your proposal was to eliminate tips and go straight min wage? Which you have NOT stated.

    If I raise my dish prices,people will tip less,
    Where are you that people don't tip based on a percentage of the bill? You raise your price, the average tip will be higher. If average bill for a table is $100, a 20% tip is $20. You raise the price to $110 a table, a 20% tip is $22. Which is more. Now, if because of the higher prices people skip the appetizer or dessert so the table bill is lower, or you have fewer customers so the gross is lower, then the total tips will also be lower, but people don't tip less for a more expensive item...the reverse is true.
    Last edited by pinqy; 05-30-13 at 08:50 AM.
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    And while the sun and moon endure/Luck's a chance, but trouble's sure,
    I'd face it as a wise man would,/And train for ill and not for good.

  5. #155
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    Re: Should employers be allowed to pay tipped employees less than minimum wage?

    Quote Originally Posted by 0bserver92 View Post
    They should just pay them minimum wage and drop the idea of tips all together.
    I live in Japan, where they do that. If you like being served in a restaurant, this is a bad idea.

    It's also a bad idea for the servers, who currently make (generally) better than minimum wage, but only get taxed on what they get paid plus what they decide to report (as I recall you are only required to report 3% of sales as tip income).

  6. #156
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    Re: Should employers be allowed to pay tipped employees less than minimum wage?

    Quote Originally Posted by pinqy View Post
    But it makes no sense unless you were going to eliminate tips.

    Then how were you proposing to pay minimum wage without raising prices?

    It's called "math". $7.25 +X > $2.13 +X There's no way around that. How anyone could call that a paycut is incomprehensible.



    But they'd still be making tips. Or are you saying your proposal was to eliminate tips and go straight min wage? Which you have NOT stated.

    Where are you that people don't tip based on a percentage of the bill? You raise your price, the average tip will be higher. If average bill for a table is $100, a 20% tip is $20. You raise the price to $110 a table, a 20% tip is $22. Which is more. Now, if because of the higher prices people skip the appetizer or dessert so the table bill is lower, or you have fewer customers so the gross is lower, then the total tips will also be lower, but people don't tip less for a more expensive item...the reverse is true.
    Your line of questioning is starting to get very rude.
    I don't tell you how to run your business,so don't tell me how to run mine.
    I've done quite nicely for me and my family without you for the last 30 years.

    Before I answer any of your questions,answer me these two questions...how long have you owned or managed a restaurant yourself?
    Are you a business owner that employs people that make tips?

    Radcen here once owned a restaurant himself.If I am doing anything wrong,illegal,or unethical,I believe he would have been the one directing this line of questioning.
    So unless you have experience running or owning a restaurant yourself,I can't explain how the business works.
    I don't think I am required to explain how I run my business to you or anyone else here unless there is a profit to be gained by it.

  7. #157
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    Re: Should employers be allowed to pay tipped employees less than minimum wage?

    It has been over 30 years since I worked as a waiter,
    but the people skills I learned are still of value today.
    People have choices of where and how to spend their discretionary funds.
    Good service may be a small part of the overall dining experience,
    but it is one people tend to remember if it's done poorly.
    There is a certain level of pride in knowing that because you can treat people
    decently, you can earn 2 or 3 times what a minimum wage worker makes.

  8. #158
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    Re: Should employers be allowed to pay tipped employees less than minimum wage?

    Quote Originally Posted by Verthaine View Post
    Your line of questioning is starting to get very rude.
    I'm not sure what you think is rude about my questions. You've said things that don't make sense to me. I've asked for clarification. How is that rude? You might be reading frustration that you won't give a straight answer to simple questions of clarification, and I apologize if that comes off as rude. It was not intended so.

    I don't tell you how to run your business,so don't tell me how to run mine.
    In no way have I told you how to run your business. Your story did not make sense to so I question to find out what I'm missing.


    Before I answer any of your questions,answer me these two questions...how long have you owned or managed a restaurant yourself?
    Are you a business owner that employs people that make tips?
    Why on earth do you think that's relevant? You don't have to run a restaurant to do basic math. I've been asking and asking what I'm missing but for some unknown reason you've chosen not to answer and instead question my experience. Do I have to be a restauranter for the answer to make sense? I'm an economist...I can understand far more complex business operations than a simple restaurant.

    Radcen here once owned a restaurant himself.If I am doing anything wrong,illegal,or unethical,I believe he would have been the one directing this line of questioning.
    Who implied you were doing anything wrong, illegal or unethical? Where is that coming from? Not from anything I wrote.

    So unless you have experience running or owning a restaurant yourself,I can't explain how the business works..
    Why not? What depth of restaurant knowledge is required to understand basic math and high school economics concepts?

    Here are the things you've said that don't make sense.
    You offered your staff to raise their base salary to minimum wage. Why? That would raise your labor cost, and I'm not sure what benefit you would get.

    Your staff considered that to be a pay cut. Why? $7.25 is more than $2.13. So where would any losses come in? What would they be missing? They'd still receive tips, wouldn't they?

    You stated that raising the price per plate would cause tips to go down. I asked how that could be. Theoretically tips per meal would go up, and based on my observations tips per meal would go up as people tend to tip a similar percentage regardless of meal price. Total tips might go down if people spent less overall due to price increase, but it's not clear if that's what you were referring to or not. So I asked.

    Seriously, I don't get your problem. I haven't accused you of anything, I'm not sure what you thought was rude. I just don't understand why you won't clarify things that don't make sense or somehow think only a restaurant owner could understand.
    Last edited by pinqy; 05-30-13 at 04:12 PM.
    Therefore, since the world has still/Much good, but much less good than ill,
    And while the sun and moon endure/Luck's a chance, but trouble's sure,
    I'd face it as a wise man would,/And train for ill and not for good.

  9. #159
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    Re: Should employers be allowed to pay tipped employees less than minimum wage?

    Quote Originally Posted by longview View Post
    It has been over 30 years since I worked as a waiter,
    but the people skills I learned are still of value today.
    People have choices of where and how to spend their discretionary funds.
    Good service may be a small part of the overall dining experience,
    but it is one people tend to remember if it's done poorly.
    There is a certain level of pride in knowing that because you can treat people
    decently, you can earn 2 or 3 times what a minimum wage worker makes.
    Nothing has changed much in those 30 years.
    A good waiter can make very good money if they do it correctly.
    Which means be nice to the customers,and "turn&burn".
    I've known plenty of waiters that put themselves through college waiting tables (including my wife,the lovely Dr.Verthaine).

  10. #160
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    Re: Should employers be allowed to pay tipped employees less than minimum wage?

    Quote Originally Posted by pinqy View Post
    I'm not sure what you think is rude about my questions. You've said things that don't make sense to me. I've asked for clarification. How is that rude? You might be reading frustration that you won't give a straight answer to simple questions of clarification, and I apologize if that comes off as rude. It was not intended so.

    In no way have I told you how to run your business. Your story did not make sense to so I question to find out what I'm missing.
    Not my problem.It made sense to Radcen.
    He knows what the business is like.
    Do you?

    Quote Originally Posted by pinqy View Post
    Why on earth do you think that's relevant? You don't have to run a restaurant to do basic math.
    But you do need experience to run one.
    Do you have any?
    I have people who handle the basic math.
    I handle the food,the staff,and the vendors.

    Quote Originally Posted by pinqy View Post
    I've been asking and asking what I'm missing but for some unknown reason you've chosen not to answer and instead question my experience. Do I have to be a restauranter for the answer to make sense? I'm an economist...I can understand far more complex business operations than a simple restaurant.
    Ever run a business yourself?
    Big difference between theory,and application.
    There is nothing simple about running a restaurant.

    Quote Originally Posted by pinqy View Post
    Why not? What depth of restaurant knowledge is required to understand basic math and high school economics concepts?
    How about knowing how to prepare,and present dishes?
    How about knowing how to deal with your staff?
    How about knowing how to deal with customers?
    How about knowing how to deal with vendors and distributors?
    Got any experience in any of that?
    Plenty of people have built successful companies without even going to highschool.

    They knew how to put people who do know basic math and economics in charge of that department.
    That is what my business partner is for.
    I'm just the one with the recipes,signs the checks,and has the name above the front door.
    I'm the one who deals with food and people.


    Quote Originally Posted by pinqy View Post
    Here are the things you've said that don't make sense.
    You offered your staff to raise their base salary to minimum wage. Why? That would raise your labor cost, and I'm not sure what benefit you would get.
    At that time,the economy was a lot better than it is today.I could afford to back then because my company wasn't in the middle of major expansion back then.


    Quote Originally Posted by pinqy View Post
    Your staff considered that to be a pay cut. Why? $7.25 is more than $2.13. So where would any losses come in? What would they be missing?
    The bennies.They chose that instead.


    Quote Originally Posted by pinqy View Post
    They'd still receive tips, wouldn't they?
    In the entire restaurant industry,it rarely works out that way.

    Quote Originally Posted by pinqy View Post
    You stated that raising the price per plate would cause tips to go down. I asked how that could be. Theoretically tips per meal would go up, and based on my observations tips per meal would go up as people tend to tip a similar percentage regardless of meal price. Total tips might go down if people spent less overall due to price increase, but it's not clear if that's what you were referring to or not. So I asked.
    There is a big difference between theory,and application.
    Because my observations and experience are more extensive than yours when it comes to what goes on in a restaurant. Tips only go up when dish prices are raised when there is a booming economy.
    We don't have one right now.
    That's the way the business works.
    No offense,but my experience and observations trump yours.
    If you want to really know how a restaurant works,go work in one.


    Quote Originally Posted by pinqy View Post
    Seriously, I don't get your problem. I haven't accused you of anything, I'm not sure what you thought was rude. I just don't understand why you won't clarify things that don't make sense or somehow think only a restaurant owner could understand.
    Because I don't like being interrogated.
    I handle the staff,the menus,and the advertising.
    My egghead accountants and my CFO handles the money.
    That's what I pay them to do.

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