View Poll Results: Violent Felons have a 2nd Amendment Right Y/N

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  • No violent felons should have a 2nd Amendment right?

    16 64.00%
  • Any felon after serving time deserves a 2nd Amendment right?

    9 36.00%
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Thread: Should a convicted violent felon be allowed to own guns after release from prison?

  1. #41
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    Re: Should a convicted violent felon be allowed to own guns after release from prison

    Quote Originally Posted by CalGun View Post
    The 2nd Amendment does not ban a convicted felon of any kind from owning a gun, but most states do. In fact the Federal Government does by statute. Should this be the law of the land or as the extreme gun right advocates say should a person released from prison, completing parole, and becoming a part of society have a right to keep and bear arms simply because the constitution doesn't say they can't?
    It's not that the Constitution says anyone can't own a firearm. What the Constitution says is that government may not prohibit anyone from owning a firearm. The people (which includes those with past criminal histories) have a right to keep and bear arms, and government is forbidden from infringing this right. Nothing in the Constitution even suggests that government has any authority to discriminate against any free citizens for any reason, by denying them this right.
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    Re: Should a convicted violent felon be allowed to own guns after release from prison

    Apply the facts of "Norway" to the United States is a pathetic attempt to justify your beliefs - and they are just beliefs. They don't have the immigration, violence, and culture we do in America - not even close. I will gant you one thing - if we had less people in prison it would cost less - I think you could verifiy that as a fact. However your justification for fewer people in prison is what you can't prove - that rehabilitating people is even remotely possible en mass. I think there are people capable of rehabilitating, but then there are too many who are not.

    Did you even know 16% of the US Adult Population in prison has been diagnosed as "mentally ill?" Did you know that means almost 500,000 mentally ill people who's behavior can easily become criminal reside in our prison system and I will disagree with your assertion they can be rehabilitated or cured. They can be managed but only in a locked facility - recidivism rates for them - do you know the rate? I doubt you do - I'm going to help you - its in the high 90's.

    Quote Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors View Post
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    Re: Should a convicted violent felon be allowed to own guns after release from prison

    When I read what you wrote I hear by brother the libertarian 9/11 truther. He also thinks that if that debt is illegal, and that our government's money is not legal. The way of life we enjoy in this country is thanks to people who ignore those thoughts and do the right thing for the masses.

    We have banned many guns in America. We have restricted many more. We have stopped felons from obtaining them. We have even stopped some with misdemeanors of various kinds from possessing, owning or having a gun. You may like it - but its the reality. And as I posted in another response to you - its a reality I would bet money you live with in your daily life? Hence you accept it - you just shout a different tune on a forum - a tune that no one cares to hear and no one is going to follow.


    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Blaylock View Post
    It's not that the Constitution says anyone can't own a firearm. What the Constitution says is that government may not prohibit anyone from owning a firearm. The people (which includes those with past criminal histories) have a right to keep and bear arms, and government is forbidden from infringing this right. Nothing in the Constitution even suggests that government has any authority to discriminate against any free citizens for any reason, by denying them this right.

  4. #44
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    Re: Should a convicted violent felon be allowed to own guns after release from prison

    Quote Originally Posted by CalGun View Post
    Apply the facts of "Norway" to the United States is a pathetic attempt to justify your beliefs - and they are just beliefs. They don't have the immigration, violence, and culture we do in America - not even close. I will gant you one thing - if we had less people in prison it would cost less - I think you could verifiy that as a fact. However your justification for fewer people in prison is what you can't prove - that rehabilitating people is even remotely possible en mass. I think there are people capable of rehabilitating, but then there are too many who are not.
    Where did I ever say you could take a carbon copy of the Norway system and plunhk it in the US? Oh, yeah, I didn't.

    However, it does demonstrate a working model. There's a dozen such models in a bunch of different countries with different factors in play.

    You simply wish to deny the reality that our system of vengeance doesn't work, because that forces you to admit it is indeed a system of vengeance that you support.

    Did you even know 16% of the US Adult Population in prison has been diagnosed as "mentally ill?" Did you know that means almost 500,000 mentally ill people who's behavior can easily become criminal reside in our prison system and I will disagree with your assertion they can be rehabilitated or cured. They can be managed but only in a locked facility - recidivism rates for them - do you know the rate? I doubt you do - I'm going to help you - its in the high 90's.
    Yes, I did know that.

    However, you're wrong again. Most of these people have never been treated, and were arrested on drug charges or something minor like that. The reason they keep going back is because no one ever recommends treatment, despite knowing they're mentally ill.

    The overwhelming majority of people in our prisons are not violent. The overwhelming majority of the mentally ill in our prisons have never been given treatment.

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    Re: Should a convicted violent felon be allowed to own guns after release from prison

    FAIL x 2

    You did bring up Norway to demonstrate your working model, your utopia as you tried to make believe could be real for America. You even did so twice and once after trying to play funny word games with it. You don't have a working model in America do you? So run off to a socialist utopia of Norway and say see - it can work - which is BS because they don't compare to America.

    x 2 is because in prison mentally ill are granted mental health care. In fact there are judges that sentence the mentally ill to prison because they know the people will get care there; and outside of prison they don't. You brought up the pedophile should never get out - I agree - but one could argue the same for the mentally ill. They can't be trusted to continue life long required treatment outside the prison environment. Sure you could create mental prisons and keep them there - we did that - called the assylums and abandoned it long ago because of how horrible they were. Looks like strike 3 there - a model tried and failed.


    Quote Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors View Post
    Where did I ever say you could take a carbon copy of the Norway system and plunhk it in the US? Oh, yeah, I didn't.

    However, it does demonstrate a working model. There's a dozen such models in a bunch of different countries with different factors in play.

    You simply wish to deny the reality that our system of vengeance doesn't work, because that forces you to admit it is indeed a system of vengeance that you support.



    Yes, I did know that.

    However, you're wrong again. Most of these people have never been treated, and were arrested on drug charges or something minor like that. The reason they keep going back is because no one ever recommends treatment, despite knowing they're mentally ill.

    The overwhelming majority of people in our prisons are not violent. The overwhelming majority of the mentally ill in our prisons have never been given treatment.

  6. #46
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    Re: Should a convicted violent felon be allowed to own guns after release from prison

    Quote Originally Posted by CalGun View Post
    The 2nd Amendment does not ban a convicted felon of any kind from owning a gun, but most states do. In fact the Federal Government does by statute. Should this be the law of the land or as the extreme gun right advocates say should a person released from prison, completing parole, and becoming a part of society have a right to keep and bear arms simply because the constitution doesn't say they can't?
    Violent offenders, especially especially those convicted of murder, rape, assault with a deadly weapon and acts of treason should not.

    However, I feel that if a person has served their time for any non-violent felony, and has maintained a clean record for a specified amount of times, that person should have their conviction expunged, and all rights restored, including Second Amendment rights.
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  7. #47
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    Re: Should a convicted violent felon be allowed to own guns after release from prison

    Quote Originally Posted by CalGun View Post
    The 2nd Amendment does not ban a convicted felon of any kind from owning a gun, but most states do. In fact the Federal Government does by statute. Should this be the law of the land or as the extreme gun right advocates say should a person released from prison, completing parole, and becoming a part of society have a right to keep and bear arms simply because the constitution doesn't say they can't?
    In our current system, I would say no, a convicted violent felon should not keep his second amendment rights. However, I really feel like if these people are considered too dangerous to own guns, they shouldn't be released in the first place, and if they're considered safe enough to release into the general population, there shouldn't be a problem with them owning guns.
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  8. #48
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    Re: Should a convicted violent felon be allowed to own guns after release from prison

    Quote Originally Posted by Surtr View Post
    Violent offenders, especially especially those convicted of murder, rape, assault with a deadly weapon and acts of treason should not.
    I'm curious why you include treason, since it's not generally a violent offense and doesn't generally involve guns.
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    Re: Should a convicted violent felon be allowed to own guns after release from prison

    Quote Originally Posted by molten_dragon View Post
    I'm curious why you include treason, since it's not generally a violent offense and doesn't generally involve guns.
    A person who commits and act of treason forfeits all rights as an American citizen.
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    Re: Should a convicted violent felon be allowed to own guns after release from prison

    Quote Originally Posted by Surtr View Post
    A person who commits and act of treason forfeits all rights as an American citizen.
    Where are you getting that from? None of our laws say anything about someone guilty of treason losing all rights as an American citizen.
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