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Is it a good thing to be oblivious of racial stereotypes?

Is it a good thing or a bad thing to be oblivious to the very real stereotypes which


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You're making a similar point to what mak2 just made, and it's a good, interesting one. As I said to him, I have to think on it more before I can say anything in any direction on it.



Yeah, I wouldn't really expect a non-American to be well versed in American stereotypes. In fact, when I heard about Sergio Garcia's comments, my first thought was "How much would a Spaniard really understand the racial implications of this comment?"

This brings up another mistake I made in my OP (as I noted earlier, I'm in idiot mode today). I should have made it clear that this is fairly amero-centric. I would not expect people outside of the US to be familiar with our stereotypes or racial issues.

American culture permiates the entire globe - people all over are aware - don't for a minute think that Garcia didn't know what he was saying. And from personal experience I would say that the average European is far more racist than the average American, by a long shot.
 
'Stereotype' is a word used to make people feel badly about making a generalization. Generalizing is an adaptation of the human species for survival, which, when applied to the modern social environment, can misfire. Stereotypes exist for a reason - and that, my friend, is the gnarled, hideous truth.

Stereotypes are a specific kind of generalization, often meant to disparage a group of people.

For example: There exists a stereotype that states: "People who say "Stereotypes exist for a reason" are usually racists."

Ironically, if we utilize their own assumptions, we can reach the conclusion that the above stereotype is often, if not usually, true. But the truth of the matter is that that particular stereotype only exists to disparage the people who say "stereotypes exist for a reason".
 
Which begs the question. do stereotypes need to be combated, or simply ingnored?

Depends on the context.
Racial stereotyping coming from a comedian on stage is one thing.
(though the Michael "Kramer" Richardson incident just showed that he didn't know how to handle a heckler,which he should of.He lost control of the situation,and in my opinion he deserved the condemnation he got)
Racial stereotyping coming from a real estate agent I'm trying to buy a house from is something totally different.
 
If the stereotype has to be fully referenced, is it really a stereotype?

Saying that one likes fried chicken is not a stereotype, but saying something like: "I'm all over fried chicken like a black person" is playing off a negative stereotype, which is inappropriate, at least. Making reference to an object or characteristic, and the group is what makes it a stereotype, so it is the context which makes it wrong.

Why are you dodging the question I keep asking? does it frighten you in some way?
 
Stereotypes are a specific kind of generalization, often meant to disparage a group of people.

For example: There exists a stereotype that states: "People who say "Stereotypes exist for a reason" are usually racists."

Ironically, if we utilize their own assumptions, we can reach the conclusion that the above stereotype is often, if not usually, true. But the truth of the matter is that that particular stereotype only exists to disparage the people who say "stereotypes exist for a reason".

Correct. Making a generalization about a group of people does not have to be racist, or viewed as racist.

For example - To say, "a lot of Asian people eat rice," would be a correct generalization, as rice is a major food source in Asian countries and has been for thousands of years. Is it racist to make an observation like this? No... It is not the stereotype itself (which is just an observation of sorts) it is the use of the stereotype itself - as you said, to disparage a group of people - which is wrong, or viewed as racist. The problem is, the racist gun has a hair-trigger, and fires accusation bullets with the slightest pressure needed.
 
Correct. Making a generalization about a group of people does not have to be racist, or viewed as racist.

For example - To say, "a lot of Asian people eat rice," would be a correct generalization, as rice is a major food source in Asian countries and has been for thousands of years. Is it racist to make an observation like this? No... It is not the stereotype itself (which is just an observation of sorts) it is the use of the stereotype itself - as you said, to disparage a group of people - which is wrong, or viewed as racist. The problem is, the racist gun has a hair-trigger, and fires accusation bullets with the slightest pressure needed.


Stereotypes can be believed as a way to disparage. More often than not, stereotypes are based on the fallacy of hasty generalization and are also subject to confirmation bias.
 
Stereotypes can be believed as a way to disparage. More often than not, stereotypes are based on the fallacy of hasty generalization and are also subject to confirmation bias.

I agree with the part about confirmation bias, as this is also a natural flaw in the human brain - whether vestigial or not. I disagree about it being a fallacy of hasty generalization though, as stereotypes do not just develop overnight. If pitbulls were considered a docile and gentle breed, the first time you saw / heard of a pitbull attacking someone, you wouldn't make a generalization that pitbulls were in fact a violent and aggressive breed. You would most likely just assume it was a freak accident or a dog with unsual characteristcs and behavior for said breed.

That's not to say all pitbulls are violent and agressive - there are exceptions to any stereotype. However, I'm willing to wager that more people than not would be willing to feed the neighbor's dog while they are on vacation if they had a golden retriever, rather than a pitbull.
 
I agree with the part about confirmation bias, as this is also a natural flaw in the human brain - whether vestigial or not. I disagree about it being a fallacy of hasty generalization though, as stereotypes do not just develop overnight. If pitbulls were considered a docile and gentle breed, the first time you saw / heard of a pitbull attacking someone, you wouldn't make a generalization that pitbulls were in fact a violent and aggressive breed. You would most likely just assume it was a freak accident or a dog with unsual characteristcs and behavior for said breed.

That's not to say all pitbulls are violent and agressive - there are exceptions to any stereotype. However, I'm willing to wager that more people than not would be willing to feed the neighbor's dog while they are on vacation if they had a golden retriever, rather than a pitbull.

Example of a stereotype based on the hasty generalization fallacy: Polish people are stupid.
 
You should see the hatred I get from racist black women for being married to a white woman.

I've seen that one. Supposedly the reason is all the decent black guys are taken so their available pool to potentials are limited. Plus, for whatever reasons, black ladies tend to not get involved with white men at the same rates as black men with white women. One lady told me once that its because of the history of slavery where black women were forced with be the concubines of their white masters, his sons, employees, etc. and feeling it would be dishonoring to their female ancestors to date a white man. :confused: Then when they see a good black guy with a white woman they get mad. There's even an often quoted line "why to all the successful black me..." You'll laugh if you google it what auto-fill finishes. I even heard a female Hispanic comedian joke that she likes black guys but none of them like her because she's not a chubby white girl. Anjelah Johnson - black guys don't like me - YouTube BTW: She's married now...to a black guy I know!

PS. She's seems to have modified the joke and changed chubby white to having a big butt. Its probably still out there. Either way, she's hilarious
 
It is pretty stupid of one to walk around oblivious of what world he is living in.

You should know the stereotypes but don't trust them implicitly. Know that they have some truth to them, otherwise, they wouldn't exist, but they aren't the be all end all of people. people are complex beings and unless you are from the jersey shore, there is usually something more to a person.
 
You should see the hatred I get from racist black women for being married to a white woman.

serious question: do you not find black women attractive or did it just kinda work out that way? Only asking because my 17 y/o has been dating for a little over a year and not once has he gone out with a black girl. He seems to prefer either pasty white redheads or hispanics. I asked him why he never dates black girls and his reason was "I'd never date a black girl. They have way too much attitude"
 
Example of a stereotype based on the hasty generalization fallacy: Polish people are stupid.

I have never even heard of that stereotype. I guess I don't live in a region of the US with a large polish population.
 
I have never even heard of that stereotype. I guess I don't live in a region of the US with a large polish population.

You've never heard a Polish joke? I guess in Chicago it's so normal I assumed everyone was aware of them. What region are you from?
 
You've never heard a Polish joke? I guess in Chicago it's so normal I assumed everyone was aware of them. What region are you from?

I've been to 40 states, think I've heard a polish joke in every one of them. Heck, even the Polish folks I've known tell em. However, haven't heard one in the last decade or so as I recall. Maybe they're finally dying out.
 
OOOHhhh get him away from the redheads...wait, is that a stereotype?
serious question: do you not find black women attractive or did it just kinda work out that way? Only asking because my 17 y/o has been dating for a little over a year and not once has he gone out with a black girl. He seems to prefer either pasty white redheads or hispanics. I asked him why he never dates black girls and his reason was "I'd never date a black girl. They have way too much attitude"
 
Is it a good thing or a bad thing to be oblivious to the very real stereotypes which exist in the world?
Like most things, the goodness or badness of it is relative. In other words, "it depends."

Relative to the oblivious person's perception of the world, such obliviousness is probably good because it shelters the oblivious person from a difficult part of the world.

Relative to the oblivious person's inevitable interaction with people who are aware of the stereotype, it's probably bad because that person is probably going end up getting their feelings hurt when someone tells them how ignorant they are.

Relative to those who are harmed by stereotypes, it's could be good or bad. It could be good in the sense that someone who doesn't even know about certain stereotypes won't intentionally perpetuate them. On the other hand, it could be bad because that same oblivious person could be complicit in the perpetuation of such stereotypes in their ignorance.

In general, however, I think people ought to be aware of what's happening around them. As a person thing, I find it nearly intolerable to deal with people who aren't ignorant of things that are incredibly pervasive.
 
I've been to 40 states, think I've heard a polish joke in every one of them. Heck, even the Polish folks I've known tell em. However, haven't heard one in the last decade or so as I recall. Maybe they're finally dying out.

I still hear them in Chicago often enough, but probably less than I used to.
 
serious question: do you not find black women attractive or did it just kinda work out that way? Only asking because my 17 y/o has been dating for a little over a year and not once has he gone out with a black girl. He seems to prefer either pasty white redheads or hispanics. I asked him why he never dates black girls and his reason was "I'd never date a black girl. They have way too much attitude"

My first wife was a darker Creole than I am.She was my "lifemate".We stayed together "until death did us part".
I fell in love and married Selena (my second wife) because she is my "soulmate".We connect in ways that me and Allison didn't.(mind you,Allison was a good wife and mother,but she wasn't the passionate fun-filled woman that Lena is).
Skin color never played a part.
 
No, it's not good. I was in a conversation with a black guy at work up in Michigan, and I said the word "boy" to him (not in a racist fashion, because I wasn't even aware that "boy" wasn't allowed to say). It nearly ended in a fistfight.

Also, racist jokes aren't nearly as funny if you don't know the stereotypes.
 
To answer your question, I think most of the time people who don't know a particular thing is viewed as a negative racial stereotype, if they're of adult age, are either doing so based on feigned ignorance or essentially CHOSEN ignorance (IE they've heard it before but just never process it in such a way that they'll recall it quickly).

I think that's the case with the vast majority of such stereotypes, especially the more "common ones". That said, I say "majority", because I do think sometimes you may just not realize. For example...

See, now that would be an example that I could imagine someone being oblivious too, since it is more about historical understanding than it is about extant stereotypes.

...I had not even THOUGHT about the notion that "cotton picken" was actually a reference to slavery and blacks until this thread. Now I feel like I just got smacked with the "OF COURSE IT IS, STUPID" stick.

It's similar to when I first heard that "Gypped" was a slur referencing gypsies.

I do understand that there's a great difference between believing all racial stereotypes are inherently bad or shouldn't be said or talked about or are true/untrue or whatever other deflection people are using to try and refocus the topic....and simply answering whether or not people feign the knowledge of most of said stereotypes.
 
Why are you dodging the question I keep asking? does it frighten you in some way?


I suspect that people who feel they are targets of a stereotype will never allow people to be oblivious that a stereotype exists. That's where the intent comes in.
 
To answer your question, I think most of the time people who don't know a particular thing is viewed as a negative racial stereotype, if they're of adult age, are either doing so based on feigned ignorance or essentially CHOSEN ignorance (IE they've heard it before but just never process it in such a way that they'll recall it quickly).

I think that's the case with the vast majority of such stereotypes, especially the more "common ones". That said, I say "majority", because I do think sometimes you may just not realize. For example...



...I had not even THOUGHT about the notion that "cotton picken" was actually a reference to slavery and blacks until this thread. Now I feel like I just got smacked with the "OF COURSE IT IS, STUPID" stick.

It's similar to when I first heard that "Gypped" was a slur referencing gypsies.

I do understand that there's a great difference between believing all racial stereotypes are inherently bad or shouldn't be said or talked about or are true/untrue or whatever other deflection people are using to try and refocus the topic....and simply answering whether or not people feign the knowledge of most of said stereotypes.

I had a smack myself against teh head moment when I learned what gypped referenced, too. :lol:
 
I suspect that people who feel they are targets of a stereotype will never allow people to be oblivious that a stereotype exists. That's where the intent comes in.

That doesn't even come remotely close to answering my question at all.
 
No, it's not good. I was in a conversation with a black guy at work up in Michigan, and I said the word "boy" to him (not in a racist fashion, because I wasn't even aware that "boy" wasn't allowed to say). It nearly ended in a fistfight.

Also, racist jokes aren't nearly as funny if you don't know the stereotypes.

Boy is one of those ones that I could see going either way....

I couldn't imagine a grown adult living in the South claiming that they didn't know some find "boy" offensive when said to a black person and it being anything but feigned or intentional ignorance.

But I absolutely COULD buy someone from the northern reaches of the United States being somewhat oblivious to it, because the lack of historical roots with the word as part of the lexicon in that fashion isn't nearly as strong.
 
Boy is one of those ones that I could see going either way....

I couldn't imagine a grown adult living in the South claiming that they didn't know some find "boy" offensive when said to a black person and it being anything but feigned or intentional ignorance.

But I absolutely COULD buy someone from the northern reaches of the United States being somewhat oblivious to it, because the lack of historical roots with the word as part of the lexicon in that fashion isn't nearly as strong.

Well I was born and raised in Michigan - lived there for almost 30 years. However, all my family lives in Alabama (with a few distant exceptions). Therefore, I did pick up some southern slang, vernacular, jargon, and overall speaking mannerisms. Things like "boy, I tell ya" just became commonplace to me because I hear it enough from my mother and other relatives.

An innocuous word like "boy" somehow gets twisted into a no-no, and my northern ass had no clue of it.

Words themselves are not racist - it only gains racist qualities through inflection and intent.
 
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