View Poll Results: Legality of Guns vs Drugs

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  • Generally speaking, guns should be legal but drugs shouldn't

    6 16.22%
  • Generally speaking, drugs should be legal but guns shouldn't

    4 10.81%
  • Both should be legal

    25 67.57%
  • Both should be illegal

    0 0%
  • Both should require a prescription/licence

    2 5.41%
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Thread: Guns vs Drugs

  1. #31
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    Re: Guns vs Drugs

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Blaylock View Post
    Drugs are never used non-abusively; they are only ever used abusively. There is no non-abusive use for them.
    Sure there is, recreation and relaxation. Are you going to tell me you're a tea total?

    Also, how about some of the other points I raised? People easily obtain drugs whether legal or not, so encouraging responsible use/abstinence is far more likely to have a positive outcome than simply forcing it underground (a la prohibition).

    Also, do you ever use the "it's just an inanimate object" argument in favor of gun rights? I ask because it applies to drugs too in my opinion.

  2. #32
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    Re: Guns vs Drugs

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    Yeah, but when drugs are abused, they harm only the guilty.
    Not true.

    It is the luser who is usually most harmed by drug abuse, but the harm is seldom confined to him. Obviously this is more so with some drugs than with some others. Do you not recall all the news stories recently about people under the influence of “bath salts”, and the violence which this drug caused them to instigate against innocents? Some drugs have a proven tendency to cause their lusers to engage in violent, dangerous behavior that they otherwise wouldn't, which creates danger not just to themselves, but to others around them.

    Less spectacularly, of course, it is a trait of nearly all these drugs that they cause impaired judgement and motor control; when people under the influence of such drugs drive or operate heavy machinery, they certainly create a danger to others.

    And then, of course, there is the fact that drug use renders many people incapable of holding down a productive job, which means that instead of contributing to society, they become a burden thereon; adversely affecting everyone else who must share some portion of that burden.
    The five great lies of the Left Wrong:
    We can be Godless and free. • “Social justice” through forced redistribution of wealth. • Silencing religious opinions counts as “diversity”. • Freedom without moral and personal responsibility. • Civilization can survive the intentional undermining of the family.

  3. #33
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    Re: Guns vs Drugs

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Blaylock View Post
    Not true.

    It is the luser who is usually most harmed by drug abuse, but the harm is seldom confined to him. Obviously this is more so with some drugs than with some others. Do you not recall all the news stories recently about people under the influence of “bath salts”, and the violence which this drug caused them to instigate against innocents? Some drugs have a proven tendency to cause their lusers to engage in violent, dangerous behavior that they otherwise wouldn't, which creates danger not just to themselves, but to others around them.

    Less spectacularly, of course, it is a trait of nearly all these drugs that they cause impaired judgement and motor control; when people under the influence of such drugs drive or operate heavy machinery, they certainly create a danger to others.

    And then, of course, there is the fact that drug use renders many people incapable of holding down a productive job, which means that instead of contributing to society, they become a burden thereon; adversely affecting everyone else who must share some portion of that burden.

    If you're talking about the Miami bath salts incident, both the victim and the "zombie," for lack of a better word, were under the influence of the bath salts. Think about it, would you allow someone to literally eat your face you were sober? I don't even need to ask that. Of course you wouldn't.

    Your point about vehicles is well taken.

    Still, I'm speaking in generalities. Drugs typically do the most harm to the drug addict, whereas guns, when they are abused, typically harm innocent bystanders.

  4. #34
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    Re: Guns vs Drugs

    Quote Originally Posted by HumanBeing View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Blaylock View Post
    Drugs are never used non-abusively; they are only ever used abusively. There is no non-abusive use for them.
    Sure there is, recreation and relaxation. Are you going to tell me you're a tea total [sic]?
    I believe the word you were looking for is “teetotaller”.

    Yes, I suppose I am. I have never been stupid enough to use alcohol nor any other mind-damaging drug. I do not need such for recreation nor relaxation, and it is obvious to me that anyone who thinks they do is seriously ****ed up. I suppose I should not be a surprised as I usually am when someone likes you expresses astonishment at the idea that someone like me can get along just fine without resorting the the use of these harmful substance; such is obviously part of the same stupidity that leads people to use these substances in the first place.



    Quote Originally Posted by HumanBeing View Post
    Also, how about some of the other points I raised? People easily obtain drugs whether legal or not, so encouraging responsible use/abstinence is far more likely to have a positive outcome than simply forcing it underground (a la prohibition).
    Here, I must concede that you may have a point. In my view, drug abuse is, in itself, clearly harmful. It is harmful to the individual who engages in it; it is harmful to those around him—especially those who are in any position to be affected by his drug-induced behavior; and it is harmful to society as a whole. The less drug abuse occurs, the better for everyone.

    Whether making drug possession and abuse a criminal matter may not be the best way to reduce the incidence of drug abuse. Clearly, it is better for people to freely choose not to abuse drugs; than for them to choose to abuse drugs and them have to be dealt with as criminals. Is there a better way? Surely, there must be, but I do not know what it is. Simply allowing drug abuse to go on unchecked certainly is not it.


    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Blaylock View Post
    Also, do you ever use the "it's just an inanimate object" argument in favor of gun rights? I ask because it applies to drugs too in my opinion.
    I don't think the comparison is valid. As I pointed out before, guns have legitimate uses, and the vast majority of uses that are made of them are legitimate. Drugs, on the other hand, have no legitimate use at all; and are never used in a manner that is anything but harmful.
    The five great lies of the Left Wrong:
    We can be Godless and free. • “Social justice” through forced redistribution of wealth. • Silencing religious opinions counts as “diversity”. • Freedom without moral and personal responsibility. • Civilization can survive the intentional undermining of the family.

  5. #35
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    Re: Guns vs Drugs

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    Guns should be legal, drugs should be illegal.
    This - from a person whose icon is a molecule of caffeine - a substance more addictive than marijuana- by far.

  6. #36
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    Re: Guns vs Drugs

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    If you're talking about the Miami bath salts incident, both the victim and the "zombie," for lack of a better word, were under the influence of the bath salts. Think about it, would you allow someone to literally eat your face you were sober? I don't even need to ask that. Of course you wouldn't.
    You seem to be referring to one specific incident, in which “bath salts” have been suspected, but not proven to have been involved. I don't know where you're getting the claim that the victim of this attack was also on “bath salts”, as I do not find that in any of the accounts that I am finding online regarding this incident.

    While that may or may not have been an example of “bath salts”-induced violence, it is certainly not the only one.
    The five great lies of the Left Wrong:
    We can be Godless and free. • “Social justice” through forced redistribution of wealth. • Silencing religious opinions counts as “diversity”. • Freedom without moral and personal responsibility. • Civilization can survive the intentional undermining of the family.

  7. #37
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    Re: Guns vs Drugs

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Blaylock View Post
    You seem to be referring to one specific incident, in which “bath salts” have been suspected, but not proven to have been involved. I don't know where you're getting the claim that the victim of this attack was also on “bath salts”, as I do not find that in any of the accounts that I am finding online regarding this incident.

    While that may or may not have been an example of “bath salts”-induced violence, it is certainly not the only one.
    Yeah, I took some interest in that case because I used to live in Miami. They were two homeless guys, both on bath salts in broad daylight by an underpass. One homeless guy passed out, and the other one thought it'd be a good idea to eat his friend's face. (yeah, yuck.) Apparently he was hallucinating and thought he was some kind of animal.

    I'm not going to try to argue that drug users are always only ever harming themselves, because I don't really believe that. However, that's true in most cases. Also, if a man on, say, bath salts, ever did want to harm you, he wouldn't be able. Drugs impair more than just judgement, they impair reaction time, coordination, concentration, etc. If the victim had been sober and awake, he almost certainly could have gotten away or defended himself.

    Someone who is that high would barely be able to walk.

  8. #38
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    Re: Guns vs Drugs

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Blaylock View Post
    Thanks for conceding.
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  9. #39
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    Re: Guns vs Drugs

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    Thanks for conceding.
    That wasn't a concession; it was a way of pointing out an instance of you “speaking with a forked tongue”.
    The five great lies of the Left Wrong:
    We can be Godless and free. • “Social justice” through forced redistribution of wealth. • Silencing religious opinions counts as “diversity”. • Freedom without moral and personal responsibility. • Civilization can survive the intentional undermining of the family.

  10. #40
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    Re: Guns vs Drugs

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Blaylock View Post
    That wasn't a concession; it was a way of pointing out an instance of you “speaking with a forked tongue”.
    Since you didn't actually address anything it still sounds like a concession to me.
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
    Life goes on within you and without you. -Harrison
    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
    After you learn quantum mechanics you're never really the same again. -Weinberg

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