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Should we open the borders?

Should We open the borders?

  • Total voters
    60
  • Poll closed .
Peter Grimm said:
I went to a top college, Duke, and there were many there who came from overseas. Many of the best and the brightest from around the world attend Duke. Many of my friends from overseas would have loved to have stayed and planted their roots in the United States, but, without corporate sponsorship, they were unable and had to return home.

That, my friend, is a travesty. A complete waste. We need smart and talented people, or simply people willing to work hard (and you don't get in to Duke unless you're willing to work hard), and what do we do? We send them home.
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I think the idea of a waiting process is silly. You're either someone who can come to this country and immediately contribute or you're not but how do you weed out who is who if you open the country up to everyone?

There isn't much point in those we want to come here coming here if we're also letting in all those who are dragging their countries down too.
 
Dapper Andy said:
I think the idea of a waiting process is silly. You're either someone who can come to this country and immediately contribute or you're not but how do you weed out who is who if you open the country up to everyone?
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You don't. The whole idea is for everyone to live under one roof, so to speak, as fairness disciples. Everyone except the Leftist Elite, of course. They each get their own roof.
 
Jetboogieman said:
While I don't think all this "what the founders would have wanted" is very healthy for people to be thinking in this day and age...

I must concur with my conservative colleague.

I don't think the founders wanted the whole world to have US citizenship and this thread and everything you've posted in it is the very opposite of academic.

It's nonsense.
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Was that supposed to be witty? Keep trying, you'll get there eventually.

No, but seriously.... I never said the whole world ought to have US citizenship. That's a straw man argument because you're attributing a false position to me. My argument is to loosen up our immigration policies and make it simpler to come in to this country, not to allow anyone and everyone access.
 
Dooble said:
Because they are dead and America's changing, right?
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No, because we don't know what they intended. We do, however, know that shortly after this country was founded, while the memory of the founders and their intentions was fresh in the American consciousness, we had one of the immigration waves in human history.
 
Dapper Andy said:
I think the idea of a waiting process is silly. You're either someone who can come to this country and immediately contribute or you're not but how do you weed out who is who if you open the country up to everyone?

There isn't much point in those we want to come here coming here if we're also letting in all those who are dragging their countries down too.
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I never tried to argue for opening the country to "everyone."

Only people who A.) have a job or B.) have someone who is willing to take care of them.
 
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This is a complicated question. Imo the borders should be open but sadly we can't afford the people currently in this country with the social programs in place much less add more.
 
Peter Grimm said:
I never tried to argue for opening the country to "everyone."

Only people who A.) have a job or B.) have someone who is willing to take care of them.
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An open border is an open border.

Once it's open anyone can come through.
 
Peter Grimm said:
I never tried to argue for opening the country to "everyone."

Only people who A.) have a job or B.) have someone who is willing to take care of them.
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And C.) Demonstrate the ability to follow our laws after a 5 - 10 year green card period -- IF they don't have a criminal record prior to their initial application.

My wife, from Russia, is closing in on her third year as a green card holder; she's adapting to America, and its Rule of Law, quite nicely.
 
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Dooble said:
Or C.) Demonstrate the ability to follow our laws after a 5 - 10 year green card period -- IF they don't have a criminal record prior to their initial application.

My wife, from Russia, is closing in on her third year as a green card holder, and she's adapting to America and its Rule of Law, quite nicely.
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My girlfriend is Russian. She hasn't been arrested yet...:cool:
 
Dapper Andy said:
Yes you did.

An open border is one where anyone can come through.

That's what it is.
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Should we open the borders relative to where they are today? That was the question. It's not an all-or-none proposition.

Why are we having this argument?
 
Peter Grimm said:
I never tried to argue for opening the country to "everyone."

Only people who A.) have a job or B.) have someone who is willing to take care of them.
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And it's absurd. First we already have work visas that are easy to get if you meet the very simple requirements. No loosening needs to take place there, nor can it without openning otherselves up to even more abuse of the system. Second, no, just no. This is what amnesty achieves and it's been proven by history. We give illegals amnesty and they use that as an anchor to bring a multitude up with them. Heck, it's how illegals operate now. One comes up, gets hooked into the illegal alien support community here, gets settled and then starts bringing up the family. Have a kid or two and the family is safe from deportation under the current lack of enforcement rules. Then up come the grandparents and cousins and close friends.

That's the story of the neighborhood that surrounds mine. I've seen it happen over the years.
 
Peter Grimm said:
Should we open the borders relative to where they are today? That was the question. It's not an all-or-none proposition.
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No, I just think we need to change the standard for who we let in and streamline the process.

Emigration should be about directly benefiting this country; not providing a better life for the immigrant.

It should be a quick yes or no process. You're either able to come to this country, buy a home, and support yourself or you're not.

Come on in if you can but stay home if you can't.
 
clownboy said:
And it's absurd. First we already have work visas that are easy to get if you meet the very simple requirements. No loosening needs to take place there, nor can it without openning otherselves up to even more abuse of the system. Second, no, just no. This is what amnesty achieves and it's been proven by history. We give illegals amnesty and they use that as an anchor to bring a multitude up with them. Heck, it's how illegals operate now. One comes up, gets hooked into the illegal alien support community here, gets settled and then starts bringing up the family. Have a kid or two and the family is safe from deportation under the current lack of enforcement rules. Then up come the grandparents and cousins and close friends.

That's the story of the neighborhood that surrounds mine. I've seen it happen over the years.
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Say you're an immigrant from Mexico. You want to bring grandma over because, well, she's your ****ing grandma. People want and deserve to be near their family, that's normal.

As long as you can pay for her healthcare, her food, her belongings, why should I want to stop you from bringing your granny to this country to live with you?

If you learned to see Mexicans as people, you wouldn't have such a dehumanizing attitude toward them. Do you even know any of these neighbors of yours? Have you talked to them?
 
Peter Grimm said:
Say you're an immigrant from Mexico. You want to bring grandma over because, well, she's your ****ing grandma. People want and deserve to be near their family, that's normal.

As long as you can pay for her healthcare, her food, her belongings, why should I want to stop you from bringing your granny to this country to live with you?

If you learned to see Mexicans as people, you wouldn't have such a dehumanizing attitude toward them. Do you even know any of these neighbors of yours? Have you talked to them?
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Because granny then lives on social services. Because granny and the rest of the family and extended family are brought here illegally. Because the first person, you mislabel yet again as an "immigrant" is an illegal alien.

And playing the racism card is blazingly stupid in this context. I have no problem with folks of different color or nationality immigrating legally and becoming American citizens. Considering my daughter is half Panamanian Indian and brown as a berry and at least one set of my grandparents are immigrants themselves, why would I.
 
clownboy said:
Because granny then lives on social services. Because granny and the rest of the family and extended family are brought here illegally. Because the first person, you mislabel yet again as an "immigrant" is an illegal alien.

And playing the racism card is blazingly stupid in this context. I have no problem with folks of different color or nationality immigrating legally and becoming American citizens. Considering my daughter is half Panamanian Indian and brown as a berry and at least one set of my grandparents are immigrants themselves, why would I.
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You've twisted my scenario again.

Either way. Is paying for an old lady's social services really the worst thing you can imagine? I'm about as right-wing as they come, but even I'm not going to deny a little old lady her food, shelter, and medicine.

As for young people, if they're here, they should be working. If they're not working, they shouldn't be here. However, if they can get a job in the United States, they should be allowed to take it.
 
Peter Grimm said:
A lot. We could probably sustain over a billion people, easily, so I wouldn't worry about it from that perspective.
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With 47 million on government assistance, you think we could support a BILLION?

Why don't you just confess that you want low wage workers for your business and get it over with. You're not fooling me.
 
Peter Grimm said:
You've twisted my scenario again.

Either way. Is paying for an old lady's social services really the worst thing you can imagine? I'm about as right-wing as they come, but even I'm not going to deny a little old lady her food, shelter, and medicine.
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Your scenerio is twisted from the beginning, not my doing. And we're not talking about denying an old woman anything, we're talking about her being here illegally in the first place. Nice try in minimizing the issue though, we're also NOT talking about just one little old lady, but a horde of friends and familly almost all here illegally.

Peter Grimm said:
As for young people, if they're here, they should be working. If they're not working, they shouldn't be here. However, if they can get a job in the United States, they should be allowed to take it.
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No, they shouldn't. If they're illegals they should be deported plain and simple. Jobs are for citizens and guests with work visas.
 
WCH said:
With 47 million on government assistance, you think we could support a BILLION?

Why don't you just confess that you want low wage workers for your business and get it over with. You're not fooling me.
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If they're working, they're not on government assistance.

Owned.
 
clownboy said:
Jobs are for citizens
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And there it is. Your xenophobia on display.... the entitlement mentality run wild. Citizens are "entitled" to the jobs, in your world.

Why? What makes an American any more worthy of a job than a Mexican?
 
Peter Grimm said:
Say you're an immigrant from Mexico. You want to bring grandma over because, well, she's your ****ing grandma. People want and deserve to be near their family, that's normal.

As long as you can pay for her healthcare, her food, her belongings, why should I want to stop you from bringing your granny to this country to live with you?

If you learned to see Mexicans as people, you wouldn't have such a dehumanizing attitude toward them. Do you even know any of these neighbors of yours? Have you talked to them?
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Who pays for granny if he stops being able or chooses not to?

Screaming racism might make you feel better but I don't think it's really relevant here. I think most people who oppose poor Mexicans unable to care for themselves also oppose poor Canadians unable to care for themselves. The operative words and phrases are "poor" and "unable to care for themselves" not Mexican or Canadian.
 
Peter Grimm said:
I never said we ought to invite a billion people to live here, but we could easily sustain that number.

US_Population_Map.png



You can choose to disbelieve if you want, but we have plenty of room. In the map above, you see that most people live on the east coast. Why? Not because the land in New England can sustain more people, but because that's where the first boats landed.

If you have a billion people, then maybe California starts to resemble New England's current density, Texas starts to resemble California's current density, Colorado starts to resemble Texas' current density....

You're talking about a little more than doubling the population, but we have from the Atlantic all the way to the Pacific to do it.
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You live in Texas yet have NO CLUE of how much water [only] it would take to support the numbers you suggest.

Not o mention the condition of our roadways with all those newbies in our cities.

You and the OP didn't think any of this through.
 
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