• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Should we open the borders?

Should We open the borders?

  • Total voters
    60
  • Poll closed .
Bonzai said:
I'm not having this discussion with a Christian propagandist.........................
Click to expand...

well_bye.jpg
 
Goshin said:
No, HIS JOB WENT TO A PERSON IN ANOTHER COUNTRY, THAT IS WHAT OUTSOURCED MEANS.


I'm so happy for you that you're a Citizen Of The World now.... I guess we can just shut our government down and let the UN run our lives, huh? If we don't give a **** about protecting American interests then we damn sure don't need our own personal government!
Click to expand...

At the end of the day, the unemployment rate has always been about the same. Think about that for a second. So, Americans are finding work a the same rate they're losing work, in the long haul.

No, I don't think the UN should be running anything. I'm proud to be American. I think what we should do is open our borders to the rest of the world because that's what this country has always been about. The land of opportunity.

Do you know what's written on the statue of liberty?

"Give me your tired, your poor,
your huddled masses yearning to breathe free.
The wretched refuse of you teaming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"


So don't accuse me of being un-American. Leave that emotional garbage at home.
 
Peter Grimm said:
Read the OP.

"I think there should be two conditions that, if satisfied, should allow anyone and everyone to enter or exit the United States at will. First, do they have a job? If yes, then they are productive, and they should be allowed to stay. If not, is there someone willing to claim them as a dependent? Is there someone willing to feed, clothe, school them? If so, there is no reason to keep them out of the country. The second condition is that they don't have a criminal record."
Click to expand...

What if their job is prostitution / drug dealing? They have a job but may not have a criminal record. They should have a criminal record for illegally coming in to the US.
 
Peter Grimm said:
At the end of the day, the unemployment rate has always been about the same. Think about that for a second. So, Americans are finding work a the same rate they're losing work, in the long haul.
Click to expand...

Evidence for this? Because I have here it was 2.9% in January of 1953 as opposed to 9.7% in January of 2010. That's not "about the same."
 
zgoldsmith23 said:
Evidence for this? Because I have here it was 2.9% in January of 1953 as opposed to 9.7% in January of 2010. That's not "about the same."
Click to expand...

You can't pick two specific data points and call that a trend. Good god. You need to take a rolling average.


Or, just look at it visually. You see, it's had its volatile ups and downs, but has remained generally at the same level.

616_figure41.gif
 
Peter Grimm said:
You can't pick two specific data points and call that a trend. Good god. You need to take a rolling average.

Or, just look at it visually. You see, it's had its volatile ups and downs, but has remained generally at the same level.

616_figure41.gif
Click to expand...

Short terms effects vs. long term effects. Going from 3% to 8% in 2 years is quite drastic. It seems to me that you're saying "well, it stayed roughly the same from 1948 - 2013 so there's no big deal" which would be quite silly.
 
Muhammed said:
No. There should be a moratorium on immigration at least until every American who wants a job or education can get one. There should be no more work or student visas issued until we have full employment for our young people (~18-25) who are suffering the most from our current economic predicament.
Click to expand...

Why is it that immigrants are able to find jobs but these retarded kids can't. Have you ever asked yourself that question?

The answer is simple, immigrants are willing to work harder, and work ****tier jobs, than fatass, entitled, lazy Americans are willing to do. Americans have an entitlement mentality. They believe everything should be given to them by birthright. Immigrants do not suffer from this sickness. Will they take free ****? Sure, of course they will, who wouldn't. But the difference is that they don't DEMAND it, much less EXPECT it, like Americans do.

So some 19 year old hipster punk who has learned to leach off of his parents for his entire life can suck my dick if he thinks that he "deserves" a job and that I should hire him just because he's an American. I don't want to hear him bitch and complain about the work or the hours while writing his little paper on how FDR was the greatest person ever. I'd much rather just hire some Mexican guy who will work hard and not complain and bitch and demand this or that out of me. And yeah, I am willing to pay MORE for a Mexican than a ****bag college student or retarded high school dropout.
 
The borders are open. I think you meant to ask if we should close them.
 
specklebang said:
No kool-aid involved. These are comments from this thread alone. Do you see why I said what I did?


Next we should let those Ph.D engineers in India who make $5,000 a year compete with American engineers accustomed to making $100,000 a year or more...

Have you even heard of drug cartels? Islamic terrorists?
Under 'king' obama the borders are virtually open.
No, no, and NO.
Decrease legal immigration, then resume at a slow pace.

t's our country, we ought to come first. If these people are so hungry for success, why can't they stay where they are and make it there?

Zero USA immigration
Deport all current foreign criminals
it is 100% ILLEGAL for any foreigner to work in USA
All USA tech at collages is a national security concern, all foreigners are banned from USA education.
you will remember that 10+ people building the CHina bomb were educated in USA, besides the current crop stealing our jobs.


That or USA CITIZENSHIP is meaning less.

oh, and enforce SECTION 274 of the INA to jail all the traitors that support "open borders" for supporting and encouraging
illegals in USA.

When e US CITIZENS can get a job in mexico, japan, CHina, and all the other places. THEN you can have your BS non-existant nation state.

But see when I was in Mexico, they deported the PROSTITUTES that were foreigners and replaced them with Mexicans..............now that is job security

Becasue it is ILLEGAL for any foreigner to work in mexico at ALL

No. There should be a moratorium on immigration at least until every American who wants a job or education can get one. There should be no more work or student visas issued until we have full employment for our young people (~18-25) who are suffering the most from our current economic predicament.
Click to expand...

No, your point is distorted. None of those posters, that I'm aware of are against immigration and immigrants. One at least comes closest I suppose in calling a moratorium on immigration, but that's not a permanent opposition but a temporary solution to a domestic problem. The rest, you're not even close.

Oh, and learn to quote. If nothing else, it's a quick cut and paste.
 
Originally Posted by clownboy
Nice, can't answer so out come the false characterizations. Next up in the playbook, racism.
Click to expand...

Peter Grimm said:
Xenophobia and racism are two heads of the same coin.
Click to expand...

And there we go, care to go for the trifecta and offer up some Godwin? :lamo
 
zgoldsmith23 said:
Short terms effects vs. long term effects. Going from 3% to 8% in 2 years is quite drastic. It seems to me that you're saying "well, it stayed roughly the same from 1948 - 2013 so there's no big deal" which would be quite silly.
Click to expand...

That is what I'm saying, and in no way is it "silly." Long term data is always better than short term data. We have it, why not use it?
 
Quik said:
Why is it that immigrants are able to find jobs but these retarded kids can't. Have you ever asked yourself that question?

The answer is simple, immigrants are willing to work harder, and work ****tier jobs, than fatass, entitled, lazy Americans are willing to do. Americans have an entitlement mentality. They believe everything should be given to them by birthright. Immigrants do not suffer from this sickness. Will they take free ****? Sure, of course they will, who wouldn't. But the difference is that they don't DEMAND it, much less EXPECT it, like Americans do.

So some 19 year old hipster punk who has learned to leach off of his parents for his entire life can suck my dick if he thinks that he "deserves" a job and that I should hire him just because he's an American. I don't want to hear him bitch and complain about the work or the hours while writing his little paper on how FDR was the greatest person ever. I'd much rather just hire some Mexican guy who will work hard and not complain and bitch and demand this or that out of me. And yeah, I am willing to pay MORE for a Mexican than a ****bag college student or retarded high school dropout.
Click to expand...

Maybe universities should think twice about giving out all those useless liberal arts degrees.
 
Peter Grimm said:
That is what I'm saying, and in no way is it "silly." Long term data is always better than short term data. We have it, why not use it?
Click to expand...

So you're fine with people losing their job? Because when the unemployment rate rises, that's what happens.
 
Quik said:
That's fine, jobs come and go.
Click to expand...

Well given your opinion on graduates of universities, I can understand your line of thinking on this, as well. :roll:
 
zgoldsmith23 said:
Well given your opinion on graduates of universities, I can understand your line of thinking on this, as well. :roll:
Click to expand...

We need less university graduates, and more skilled technicians. If you come to me with a philosophy degree expecting a job I'm gonna laugh in your face. Yeah, I have a job for you, but you're gonna get paid a lot less than the Mexican guy I hired who has been doing this for 15 years and does an awesome job at it and doesn't bitch and complain the whole time.
 
Quik said:
We need less university graduates, and more skilled technicians. If you come to me with a philosophy degree expecting a job I'm gonna laugh in your face. Yeah, I have a job for you, but you're gonna get paid a lot less than the Mexican guy I hired who has been doing this for 15 years and does an awesome job at it and doesn't bitch and complain the whole time.
Click to expand...

Yeah, let's just ignore those people that go on to get PhDs and to discover cures for diseases, develop new technologies, etc.
 
No country has infinite resources able to sustain infinite population numbers. Certainly the USA doesn't. The people of the US have the right to expect its government to know who has come into our country, why they have come here, and where they are located. It doesn't know any of that about people who come here illegally. Starting with Reagan's amnesty in the 1980s (which I supported at the time), illegal immigration doubles everytime a president even whispers that word. In California alone, 70 hospitals and medical facilities have been forced to close because the enormous burden of providing "free" OB/GYN care to illegals... while being forbidden by law from even inquiring about their legal status. This is unacceptable.

And brings me to my next thought. We should amend the constitution to rescind the automatic citizenship rule. Made sense when we were nation-building in the 1800's and early 1900's (when nearly all immigrants came through Ellis Island and were processed). Does not make sense now, especially when "anchor babies" (yes, I know some people get uppity about the term, but that's exactly what it is) encourage illegals to give birth here to American citizens, which are then immediately afforded access to entitlements... otherwise known as taxpayer money. I'd rewrite the law to state that at least one biological parent must already be a citizen, by birth or naturalization.

Yes, we need to make it much easier for productive foreign nationals to enter the US legally, so they can work, pay taxes, contribute to the country. I'm all in favor of that. But first we need to control the borders and keep track of who is inside our own country.
 
If my point was so distorted what value would have been added by my using quotes which are a quick cut and paste? And really, I'm not sure I had a point of my own, just reacting to other posts. Thanks for straightening me out.






clownboy said:
No, your point is distorted. None of those posters, that I'm aware of are against immigration and immigrants. One at least comes closest I suppose in calling a moratorium on immigration, but that's not a permanent opposition but a temporary solution to a domestic problem. The rest, you're not even close.

Oh, and learn to quote. If nothing else, it's a quick cut and paste.
Click to expand...
 
DiAnna said:
No country has infinite resources able to sustain infinite population numbers. Certainly the USA doesn't. The people of the US have the right to expect its government to know who has come into our country, why they have come here, and where they are located. It doesn't know any of that about people who come here illegally. Starting with Reagan's amnesty in the 1980s (which I supported at the time), illegal immigration doubles everytime a president even whispers that word. In California alone, 70 hospitals and medical facilities have been forced to close because the enormous burden of providing "free" OB/GYN care to illegals... while being forbidden by law from even inquiring about their legal status. This is unacceptable.

And brings me to my next thought. We should amend the constitution to rescind the automatic citizenship rule. Made sense when we were nation-building in the 1800's and early 1900's (when nearly all immigrants came through Ellis Island and were processed). Does not make sense now, especially when "anchor babies" (yes, I know some people get uppity about the term, but that's exactly what it is) encourage illegals to give birth here to American citizens, which are then immediately afforded access to entitlements... otherwise known as taxpayer money. I'd rewrite the law to state that at least one biological parent must already be a citizen, by birth or naturalization.

Yes, we need to make it much easier for productive foreign nationals to enter the US legally, so they can work, pay taxes, contribute to the country. I'm all in favor of that. But first we need to control the borders and keep track of who is inside our own country.
Click to expand...

Why do "we," and I use that term loosely, need that level of control? Why does everything need to be so centralized?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom