View Poll Results: Should We open the borders?

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  • Yes

    10 12.82%
  • No

    68 87.18%
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Thread: Should we open the borders?

  1. #51
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    Re: Should we open the borders?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    You're coming from the place that Americans are entitled to those jobs (like picking fruit or mowing lawns). Nobody is entitled to anything. That's not what America is about.

    The generations of immigrants that have come here have always come because this is the land of opportunity. We didn't give preferential treatment to those who came on the Mayflower.
    Nonsense, citizens are entitled to the benefits of the society they are citizens of. Non-citizens are not.

    It's the height of frivolity to claim that the immigrants who helped build this country, who came here to be citizens, to be Americans, have anything in common with the illegal aliens of the present.

  2. #52
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    Re: Should we open the borders?

    Maybe ILLEGAL is the key word here.

    How about LEGAL immigrants. Are they Cartel members or chronic drunk drivers? Those who go to the time and trouble to immigrate legally are more likely to be excellent citizens. So why be anti-immigration? How about being anti-ILLEGAL immigration?

    There is no plausible way to "close the borders". There is just too much border. If you really don't want illegal immigrants, then it's time to issue National ID and require it for everything from renting a room, cashing a check, taking a plane, buying gas or eating in a restaurant. No papers, no service.

    Have you noticed that not one administration has done anything whatsoever to reduce illegal immigration. Sheesh, Obama has had the most rigorous enforcement of all and you can see how well that has worked out.


    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Nonsense.

    There is a virtual epidemic of drunken driving by certain categories of illegal immigrants, along with fatal car crashes in large numbers.

    There's MS13, and the other South American drug cartels, who are already striking murderously at our own law enforcement across the border.


    Do you even LIVE in the real world, here?

  3. #53
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    Re: Should we open the borders?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    We should abandon our silly and futile notion of trying to "seal the borders" and just "let the markets work," so to speak.

    I think there should be two conditions that, if satisfied, should allow anyone and everyone to enter or exit the United States at will. First, do they have a job? If yes, then they are productive, and they should be allowed to stay. If not, is there someone willing to claim them as a dependent? Is there someone willing to feed, clothe, school them? If so, there is no reason to keep them out of the country. The second condition is that they don't have a criminal record.

    Why not seal the border? Well, for one, futility. No matter what we do, people find ways to enter the country. So really, we're kicking and screaming, we're pouring countless resources in to fight a "problem" that is probably never going to be resolved.

    Second, aside from pure xenophobia and/or racism, I haven't heard a good argument yet for why we should try to stem the tide of immigrants in to this vast country of ours. You have to admit, that's part of the equation. Nobody would complain if a bunch of blond hair, blue eyed, English speaking Canadians were crossing the border en masse. So I think we need to be mature and ask ourselves if xenophobia is really a good enough reason to literally build a fence between ourselves and our neighbors.

    No. Population migrations are a natural phenomenon. It's been going on forever. Massive governments and their laws and walls are artificial phenomenon. Nature will find a way.
    Simply put too many people would come too quickly without adequate time for the infrastructure, economy, and housing system to cater for them. I had a friend who served with the Spanish army on the Spanish/Moroccan border in Ceuta (Spanish enclave in Morocco) and he said that people would literally hurl themselves at huge barbed wire fences in an attempt to get in to Europe. If people are willing to do that to get into whats actually a very poor country by first world standards think how many will come to the U.S if there are no restrictions whatsoever. Though thats not to say that I'm against loosening the restrictions.

  4. #54
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    Re: Should we open the borders?

    Quote Originally Posted by specklebang View Post
    Maybe ILLEGAL is the key word here.

    How about LEGAL immigrants. Are they Cartel members or chronic drunk drivers? Those who go to the time and trouble to immigrate legally are more likely to be excellent citizens. So why be anti-immigration? How about being anti-ILLEGAL immigration?

    There is no plausible way to "close the borders". There is just too much border. If you really don't want illegal immigrants, then it's time to issue National ID and require it for everything from renting a room, cashing a check, taking a plane, buying gas or eating in a restaurant. No papers, no service.

    Have you noticed that not one administration has done anything whatsoever to reduce illegal immigration. Sheesh, Obama has had the most rigorous enforcement of all and you can see how well that has worked out.


    If we threw the floodgates open like he's suggesting, we'd get the bad along with the good.

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  5. #55
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    Re: Should we open the borders?

    I don't think that is the proposal. I think we're speaking of opening the immigration system instead of capping it. We don't want or need the worthless. But anyone that will fit in and become a productive society member should be welcomed, processed and integrated.



    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    If we threw the floodgates open like he's suggesting, we'd get the bad along with the good.

  6. #56
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    Re: Should we open the borders?

    Quote Originally Posted by specklebang View Post
    I don't think that is the proposal. I think we're speaking of opening the immigration system instead of capping it. We don't want or need the worthless. But anyone that will fit in and become a productive society member should be welcomed, processed and integrated.


    All 6 billion of them?

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  7. #57
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    Re: Should we open the borders?

    Quote Originally Posted by Calvincoolidge View Post
    Have you even heard of drug cartels? Islamic terrorists?
    Under 'king' obama the borders are virtually open.
    No, no, and NO.
    Decrease legal immigration, then resume at a slow pace.
    Do you actually believe there are islamic terrorists in Mexico?

  8. #58
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    Re: Should we open the borders?

    The borders are already wide open for legal crossings.

  9. #59
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    Re: Should we open the borders?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    If the blond-haired Canadians were taking jobs from Americans and pushed the pay for a concrete mason from $20/hr in 1985 to $7/hr in 2005, yes we WOULD be screaming.
    I look at it from the other point of view. So the Mexicans took the cost of concrete masonry from $20/hr to $7/hr, thus lowering building costs, meaning we can have newer, nicer buildings.

  10. #60
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    Re: Should we open the borders?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    Do you actually believe there are islamic terrorists in Mexico?
    No, I'm sure the drug cartels keep them out. Like Saddam, they don't like sharing any kind of power - unless, of course, they get paid well.
    Last edited by MoSurveyor; 05-22-13 at 09:29 PM.
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