View Poll Results: Should We open the borders?

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  • Yes

    10 12.82%
  • No

    68 87.18%
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Thread: Should we open the borders?

  1. #41
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    Re: Should we open the borders?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    My word, we actually agree on something.
    I'm nothing if not exceedingly rational.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  2. #42
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    Re: Should we open the borders?

    Quote Originally Posted by Muhammed View Post
    For the most part immigrants are not creating jobs, they are taking jobs that could otherwise be done by Americans. And the poverty they cause by taking American jobs is a recipe for violence.

    Our country needs to look after it's own citizens first.
    You're coming from the place that Americans are entitled to those jobs (like picking fruit or mowing lawns). Nobody is entitled to anything. That's not what America is about.

    The generations of immigrants that have come here have always come because this is the land of opportunity. We didn't give preferential treatment to those who came on the Mayflower.

  3. #43
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    Re: Should we open the borders?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    I think there should be two conditions that, if satisfied, should allow anyone and everyone to enter or exit the United States at will. First, do they have a job? If yes, then they are productive, and they should be allowed to stay. If not, is there someone willing to claim them as a dependent? Is there someone willing to feed, clothe, school them? If so, there is no reason to keep them out of the country. The second condition is that they don't have a criminal record.
    Even those conditions would label you a "xenophobe" in the eyes of some. Practical solutions will never be achieved when such intense political interest is involved.

  4. #44
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    Re: Should we open the borders?

    Have you even heard of drug cartels? Islamic terrorists?
    Under 'king' obama the borders are virtually open.
    No, no, and NO.
    Decrease legal immigration, then resume at a slow pace.

  5. #45
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    Re: Should we open the borders?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    We should abandon our silly and futile notion of trying to "seal the borders" and just "let the markets work," so to speak.

    I think there should be two conditions that, if satisfied, should allow anyone and everyone to enter or exit the United States at will. First, do they have a job? If yes, then they are productive, and they should be allowed to stay. If not, is there someone willing to claim them as a dependent? Is there someone willing to feed, clothe, school them? If so, there is no reason to keep them out of the country. The second condition is that they don't have a criminal record.

    Why not seal the border? Well, for one, futility. No matter what we do, people find ways to enter the country. So really, we're kicking and screaming, we're pouring countless resources in to fight a "problem" that is probably never going to be resolved.

    Second, aside from pure xenophobia and/or racism, I haven't heard a good argument yet for why we should try to stem the tide of immigrants in to this vast country of ours. You have to admit, that's part of the equation. Nobody would complain if a bunch of blond hair, blue eyed, English speaking Canadians were crossing the border en masse. So I think we need to be mature and ask ourselves if xenophobia is really a good enough reason to literally build a fence between ourselves and our neighbors.

    No. Population migrations are a natural phenomenon. It's been going on forever. Massive governments and their laws and walls are artificial phenomenon. Nature will find a way.

    If the blond-haired Canadians were taking jobs from Americans and pushed the pay for a concrete mason from $20/hr in 1985 to $7/hr in 2005, yes we WOULD be screaming.

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  6. #46
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    Re: Should we open the borders?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    Why should Americans be entitled to such special treatment? If someone is smarter, hungrier, harder working, then they should be able to come in to this country and take the job. That's what keeps us on top.

    We are a country of immigrants.

    A government that does not protect its own citizens from foreigners is no longer a legitimate government.

    Do you want the majority of Americans working for fifty cents an hour like in some 3rd world countries?

    Fiddling While Rome Burns
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  7. #47
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    Re: Should we open the borders?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    People create jobs. And plus, immigrants are peaceful.


    Nonsense.

    There is a virtual epidemic of drunken driving by certain categories of illegal immigrants, along with fatal car crashes in large numbers.

    There's MS13, and the other South American drug cartels, who are already striking murderously at our own law enforcement across the border.


    Do you even LIVE in the real world, here?

    Fiddling While Rome Burns
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  8. #48
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    Re: Should we open the borders?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    I went to a top college, Duke, and there were many there who came from overseas. Many of the best and the brightest from around the world attend Duke. Many of my friends from overseas would have loved to have stayed and planted their roots in the United States, but, without corporate sponsorship, they were unable and had to return home.

    That, my friend, is a travesty. A complete waste. We need smart and talented people, or simply people willing to work hard (and you don't get in to Duke unless you're willing to work hard), and what do we do? We send them home.

    You are NOT describing the average illegal immigrant. You know that, right?

    Fiddling While Rome Burns
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  9. #49
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    Re: Should we open the borders?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    I think there should be two conditions that, if satisfied, should allow anyone and everyone to enter or exit the United States at will. .

    Ah. Would that include people with no criminal background but suspected ties to terrorist organizations? Shall we let Al Quods enter and leave the US at will?

    Fiddling While Rome Burns
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  10. #50
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    Re: Should we open the borders?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    American citizenship shouldn't bring with it an attitude of entitlement. If someone is smarter/harder working than a "citizen," I'd rather hire them.
    And if you do I'd rather see you fined and go to jail.

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