View Poll Results: Should We open the borders?

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  • Yes

    10 12.82%
  • No

    68 87.18%
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Thread: Should we open the borders?

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    Re: Should we open the borders?

    Quote Originally Posted by Indeed View Post
    No, we should get rid of the illegal Italian immigrants.
    Defining the legality of the immigrants is the subject of this debate.

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    Re: Should we open the borders?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    You know, following the herd is not always the right way to go. Just assess the situation based on its merits. If we bring in more people who are productive, that will benefit society. It has worked for us in the past. There is no reason it wouldn't work for us today.
    There are pro's and con's to everything. Look at the bigger picture. In the past we had far less people in this country than we do today. The growth of an economy must be built up over time and not be overburdened or it will crash. That is one of the reasons that countries have immigration laws and why there are quota's (even if they are unofficial). Will allowing open borders or even easier access be good? Yes, on one level it will be. What about the other level? The level where an already overburdened economy gets even more burdened? It takes time to establish new buisnesses and it can often take multiple people to fill one position because not everything about a person can be put down on paper or found out about in one or two or even three interviews.
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    Re: Should we open the borders?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    So we shouldn't interact with Mexicans because they're diseased? This is rich.

    Why don't we ban people from going on vacation then? Can't have folks coming home with some crazy virus, can we?
    Actually many visitors to the US have to pass a medical background check in order to enter the US legally.
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    Re: Should we open the borders?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    There are pro's and con's to everything. Look at the bigger picture. In the past we had far less people in this country than we do today. The growth of an economy must be built up over time and not be overburdened or it will crash. That is one of the reasons that countries have immigration laws and why there are quota's (even if they are unofficial). Will allowing open borders or even easier access be good? Yes, on one level it will be. What about the other level? The level where an already overburdened economy gets even more burdened? It takes time to establish new buisnesses and it can often take multiple people to fill one position because not everything about a person can be put down on paper or found out about in one or two or even three interviews.
    The idea is, if someone doesn't have a job for say 2 months, you deport them.

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    Re: Should we open the borders?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    The idea is, if someone doesn't have a job for say 2 months, you deport them.
    Umm...that is part of the problem right now as most illegals aliens that are in the US are in here on expired Visa's. How are you going to track them? Embed GPS tracking devices into their skin? We have a rather large country in which a person can quite easily disappear if they want to.
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    Re: Should we open the borders?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    We should abandon our silly and futile notion of trying to "seal the borders" and just "let the markets work," so to speak.

    I think there should be two conditions that, if satisfied, should allow anyone and everyone to enter or exit the United States at will. First, do they have a job? If yes, then they are productive, and they should be allowed to stay. If not, is there someone willing to claim them as a dependent? Is there someone willing to feed, clothe, school them? If so, there is no reason to keep them out of the country. The second condition is that they don't have a criminal record.

    Why not seal the border? Well, for one, futility. No matter what we do, people find ways to enter the country. So really, we're kicking and screaming, we're pouring countless resources in to fight a "problem" that is probably never going to be resolved.

    Second, aside from pure xenophobia and/or racism, I haven't heard a good argument yet for why we should try to stem the tide of immigrants in to this vast country of ours. You have to admit, that's part of the equation. Nobody would complain if a bunch of blond hair, blue eyed, English speaking Canadians were crossing the border en masse. So I think we need to be mature and ask ourselves if xenophobia is really a good enough reason to literally build a fence between ourselves and our neighbors.

    No. Population migrations are a natural phenomenon. It's been going on forever. Massive governments and their laws and walls are artificial phenomenon. Nature will find a way.
    At a forum where there are quite a number of liberals and libertarians, the poll still shows the great majority wants the borders closed, 55-10 at this point.

    When ISPs post "legalization and citizenship" articles on their home pages, the general population reader commentary is more than 10-1 opposed to that and open borders.

    We already have a population mismanagement crisis in our cities, where instead of putting a moratorium on building more homes and business buildings, cities are instead trying to emulate Manhattan, building to the sky, making it nearly impossible to walk down the streets it's so crowded, as city managers care more about the resultant increase in tax revenues than the quality of living of their citizens.

    Left to their own devices, the "markets" would crush the quality of life from American cities, and overflow overcrowding into the country side, creating massive company buildings like the ones in China that employ a million people, complete with suicide nets to catch the many each day that can no longer tolerate that sardine-packed "living".

    As it is, the 2010 estimate for the world's population by 2050, even with descending yet not projected to be negative population change rates, predicts that by 2050 the world's population will increase over the 2010 count by the combined 2010 populations of India and China, with America increasing by 85 million to 395 million people, and that's without open borders.

    If America's borders were open to anyone, those being squashed by even worse over-population would throng here, creating Bangladesh-like poverty.

    "Immigrants" is an emotionally laden term for many going back many decades, a term that is misused and abused today by both wings of the political spectrum to further their ideological agendas.

    It is important not to get caught up in emotionalism when dealing with such a dire problem as today's population mismangement matters.

    For the American quality of life to re-ascend post-recession, we need to set emotionalism aside and instead focus on smart thinking and with respect to quality of life liberty and justice for the members of our country: its citizens.

    America must do right by its citizens first, or there is no reason to even have America, to have countries at all.

    If other countries won't focus on and work to solve their population mismanagement problems, we should not be the ones codependently coddling their lack of effort by giving them a place to deposit their continuous overflow.

    It is time for us to close the borders to the best of our ability, a task at which we can most definitely succeed if we make an effort, and to "encourage" illegals and their children to leave and return to their ethically-correct country of origin.

    The only way we will get other countries to manage their populations is if we show that we are not only dedicated to managing our demographic resources for our citizens but that we will no longer tolerate other countries ignoring their own population mismanagement problems, that we also "encourage" those countries to solve their population mismanagement problems, no matter what culture or religion or corruption had historically blocked their way.

    Our country's, indeed our planet's, resources of physical space and breathable air and hospitable climes and tillable soil and all the basics of people's needs is finite and dwindling.

    Maintaining healthy boundaries is a foundational value for individuals, one that extends to groups of individuals, citizens, of a country.

    We must do all that we can to maintain our healthy national boundaries if we, as the citizenry of America, are to continue to have hope for a quality of living for ourselves, our children, and their children, and to also thereby give other countries a model of success which they can emulate.

    Keeping the borders closed, keeping our healthy boundaries intact, is an essential requirement of maintaining that quality of American living.
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    Re: Should we open the borders?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    You've twisted my scenario again.

    Either way. Is paying for an old lady's social services really the worst thing you can imagine? I'm about as right-wing as they come, but even I'm not going to deny a little old lady her food, shelter, and medicine.

    As for young people, if they're here, they should be working. If they're not working, they shouldn't be here. However, if they can get a job in the United States, they should be allowed to take it.
    Where is her Mexican pension, hmmmm? That's where she lived all her life, where is it? It's not right for people to expect something they never earned. I know all about this, because my parents were immigrants. The difference is they came here legally. They never mooched off the system. They got jobs and worked their asses off, without any language assistance, social services or any other nanny-state hook-me-ups. They couldn't speak English, so they had to learn (imagine that). They have been comfortably retired for many years now. I have no sympathy for cheaters. They cheat their way in, they cheat the American citizenry of tax dollars, and then expect to be rewarded for their deeds with amnesty. So save the heart-strings pulling stories about grandma. The minute Grandma sneaks over the border, she's a criminal.
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    Re: Should we open the borders?

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    The minute Grandma sneaks over the border, she's a criminal.



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    Re: Should we open the borders?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    Defining the legality of the immigrants is the subject of this debate.
    If you come here through the set procedures and do it by the book, you are here legally. The question is whether we should even have a set of proper procedures for them to go through in the first place. I say we should because it makes it much easier to enforce laws if you have a file on everyone in the area, which I believe is a main reason that crime rates are higher in areas populated with large numbers of illegal immigrants. Guilty people don't get caught as easily. That is my opinion in a nutshell.
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    Re: Should we open the borders?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    So we shouldn't interact with Mexicans because they're diseased? This is rich.

    Why don't we ban people from going on vacation then? Can't have folks coming home with some crazy virus, can we?
    Incoming:

    United States immigration law requires immigrant visa applicants to obtain certain vaccinations (listed below) prior to the issuance of an immigrant visa. Panel physicians who conduct medical examinations of immigrant visa applicants are required to verify that immigrant visa applicants have met the vaccination requirements, or that it is medically inappropriate for the visa applicant to receive one or more of the listed vaccinations:

    Hepatitis A
    Hepatitis B
    Influenza
    Influenza type b (Hib)
    Measles
    Meningococcal
    Mumps
    Pneumococcal
    Pertussis
    Polio
    Rotavirus
    Rubella
    Tetanus and diphtheria toxoids
    Varicella
    Vaccination Requirements for IV Applicants


    Traveling to Mexico?

    Routine vaccines
    Make sure you are up-to-date on routine vaccines before every trip. These vaccines include measles-mumps-rubella (MMR) vaccine, diphtheria-pertussis-tetanus vaccine, varicella (chickenpox) vaccine, and your yearly flu shot.

    Most travelers: Get travel vaccines and medicines because there is a risk of these diseases in the country you are visiting.
    Hepatitis A
    CDC recommends this vaccine because you can get hepatitis A through contaminated food or water in Mexico, regardless of where you are eating or staying.

    Typhoid
    You can get typhoid through contaminated food or water in Mexico. CDC recommends this vaccine for most travelers, especially if you are staying with friends or relatives, visiting smaller cities or rural areas, or if you are an adventurous eater.
    Health Information for Travelers to Mexico | Travelers Health | CDC


    Traveling somewhere else?
    Destinations | Travelers Health | CDC
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