View Poll Results: Should We open the borders?

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  • Yes

    10 12.82%
  • No

    68 87.18%
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Thread: Should we open the borders?

  1. #21
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    Re: Should we open the borders?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    We should abandon our silly and futile notion of trying to "seal the borders" and just "let the markets work," so to speak.

    I think there should be two conditions that, if satisfied, should allow anyone and everyone to enter or exit the United States at will. First, do they have a job? If yes, then they are productive, and they should be allowed to stay. If not, is there someone willing to claim them as a dependent? Is there someone willing to feed, clothe, school them? If so, there is no reason to keep them out of the country. The second condition is that they don't have a criminal record.

    Why not seal the border? Well, for one, futility. No matter what we do, people find ways to enter the country. So really, we're kicking and screaming, we're pouring countless resources in to fight a "problem" that is probably never going to be resolved.

    Second, aside from pure xenophobia and/or racism, I haven't heard a good argument yet for why we should try to stem the tide of immigrants in to this vast country of ours. You have to admit, that's part of the equation. Nobody would complain if a bunch of blond hair, blue eyed, English speaking Canadians were crossing the border en masse. So I think we need to be mature and ask ourselves if xenophobia is really a good enough reason to literally build a fence between ourselves and our neighbors.

    No. Population migrations are a natural phenomenon. It's been going on forever. Massive governments and their laws and walls are artificial phenomenon. Nature will find a way.
    Its a national security hazard to have open borders. There are more then just people looking for jobs coming across the border. Drug smugglers, and potentially terrorists, are also free to sneak across an open border. Not to mention, its a case of respectability. No other country in the world lets citizens from another country walk all over the law like we do. Its appalling, illegal immigrants are well.... illegal. We should have a better system for allowing people to come here legally yes, but that's no reason to let people kick mud on the laws on the books.

  2. #22
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    Re: Should we open the borders?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    We should abandon our silly and futile notion of trying to "seal the borders" and just "let the markets work," so to speak.

    I think there should be two conditions that, if satisfied, should allow anyone and everyone to enter or exit the United States at will. First, do they have a job? If yes, then they are productive, and they should be allowed to stay. If not, is there someone willing to claim them as a dependent? Is there someone willing to feed, clothe, school them? If so, there is no reason to keep them out of the country. The second condition is that they don't have a criminal record.

    Why not seal the border? Well, for one, futility. No matter what we do, people find ways to enter the country. So really, we're kicking and screaming, we're pouring countless resources in to fight a "problem" that is probably never going to be resolved.

    Second, aside from pure xenophobia and/or racism, I haven't heard a good argument yet for why we should try to stem the tide of immigrants in to this vast country of ours. You have to admit, that's part of the equation. Nobody would complain if a bunch of blond hair, blue eyed, English speaking Canadians were crossing the border en masse. So I think we need to be mature and ask ourselves if xenophobia is really a good enough reason to literally build a fence between ourselves and our neighbors.

    No. Population migrations are a natural phenomenon. It's been going on forever. Massive governments and their laws and walls are artificial phenomenon. Nature will find a way.
    When e US CITIZENS can get a job in mexico, japan, CHina, and all the other places. THEN you can have your BS non-existant nation state.

    But see when I was in Mexico, they deported the PROSTITUTES that were foreigners and replaced them with Mexicans..............now that is job security

    Becasue it is ILLEGAL for any foreigner to work in mexico at ALL.
    Last edited by 274ina; 05-22-13 at 09:16 AM.
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    Re: Should we open the borders?

    Zero USA immigration
    Deport all current foreign criminals
    it is 100% ILLEGAL for any foreigner to work in USA
    All USA tech at collages is a national security concern, all foreigners are banned from USA education.
    you will remember that 10+ people building the CHina bomb were educated in USA, besides the current crop stealing our jobs.


    That or USA CITIZENSHIP is meaning less.

    oh, and enforce SECTION 274 of the INA to jail all the traitors that support "open borders" for supporting and encouraging
    illegals in USA.
    Last edited by 274ina; 05-22-13 at 09:19 AM.
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  4. #24
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    Re: Should we open the borders?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    We should abandon our silly and futile notion of trying to "seal the borders" and just "let the markets work," so to speak.

    I think there should be two conditions that, if satisfied, should allow anyone and everyone to enter or exit the United States at will. First, do they have a job? If yes, then they are productive, and they should be allowed to stay. If not, is there someone willing to claim them as a dependent? Is there someone willing to feed, clothe, school them? If so, there is no reason to keep them out of the country. The second condition is that they don't have a criminal record.

    Why not seal the border? Well, for one, futility. No matter what we do, people find ways to enter the country. So really, we're kicking and screaming, we're pouring countless resources in to fight a "problem" that is probably never going to be resolved.

    Second, aside from pure xenophobia and/or racism, I haven't heard a good argument yet for why we should try to stem the tide of immigrants in to this vast country of ours. You have to admit, that's part of the equation. Nobody would complain if a bunch of blond hair, blue eyed, English speaking Canadians were crossing the border en masse. So I think we need to be mature and ask ourselves if xenophobia is really a good enough reason to literally build a fence between ourselves and our neighbors.

    No. Population migrations are a natural phenomenon. It's been going on forever. Massive governments and their laws and walls are artificial phenomenon. Nature will find a way.
    Because having a defined border and limited legal access to be considered a member of the country is what defined THE PHYSICAL COUNTRY.

    Having no defined border - or one that is ignored entirely - is completely senseless.

    And I don't think you realize that our border DOES provide us with the mean of protecting our selves - a line, on map or otherwise, of defined 'offense' - - and I"m not referring to 'regular old people' - I'm referring to larger entities such as businesses, government, militaries, and drug cartels.

    You're thinking ONLY in regard to the regular old guys who want to do no harm - not everyone is a regular old guy doing no harm.
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    Re: Should we open the borders?

    I think we should have more secure borders to control the flow of immigrants and smuggling, but otherwise I would be fine with anything that adds access to our nation to foreigners be they coming to visit, work, go to school, sight see, live, have their babies, get medical care, invest, breath free, etc. While it might drive down wages in certain industries like manufacturing, I think it would be a net positive in the long term for us and the world. I doubt politicians would ever do what I would do--remove the quota caps--but anything that moves in that direction is welcome to me.

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    Re: Should we open the borders?

    I don't think that we should have 100% open boarders, but we should have very liberal immigration policies. Immigrants are important to a healthy culture and economy. With immigration we're pretty much right on replacement with our population as well.

    Closed boarders are stupid and harmful to the Republic, most calls to closed boarders are typically rooted in ignorance, emotion, and hysteria.
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  7. #27
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    Re: Should we open the borders?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    Actually, the job market is not fixed, but grows depending on demand. The idea is that we take useful people and don't take the bums.
    Right, but demand is also limited. So you're saying we open the borders ... kinda? That's not "opening" the borders.
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  8. #28
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    Re: Should we open the borders?

    Our immigration policies should benefit all Americans.It should not be used to screw the wages of American citizens.We should impose a temporary ban on entry and visas for citizens of countries we have the most illegal immigration problems with until all those illegals go back to their countries. Border security should be increased to prevent illegal entry into the US while allowing anyone who wants to freely leave with no questions asked.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

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    Re: Should we open the borders?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    Why should Americans be entitled to such special treatment? If someone is smarter, hungrier, harder working, then they should be able to come in to this country and take the job. That's what keeps us on top.

    We are a country of immigrants.
    It's our country, we ought to come first. If these people are so hungry for success, why can't they stay where they are and make it there?
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    Re: Should we open the borders?

    Quote Originally Posted by WCH View Post
    IMO, you need to do a lot more research on the subject. Most of what you say is fancifulness.
    Why should this subject be any different from any of the others?
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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