View Poll Results: Should We open the borders?

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  • Yes

    10 12.82%
  • No

    68 87.18%
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Thread: Should we open the borders?

  1. #221
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    Re: Should we open the borders?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    We should abandon our silly and futile notion of trying to "seal the borders" and just "let the markets work," so to speak.

    I think there should be two conditions that, if satisfied, should allow anyone and everyone to enter or exit the United States at will. First, do they have a job? If yes, then they are productive, and they should be allowed to stay. If not, is there someone willing to claim them as a dependent? Is there someone willing to feed, clothe, school them? If so, there is no reason to keep them out of the country. The second condition is that they don't have a criminal record.

    Why not seal the border? Well, for one, futility. No matter what we do, people find ways to enter the country. So really, we're kicking and screaming, we're pouring countless resources in to fight a "problem" that is probably never going to be resolved.

    Second, aside from pure xenophobia and/or racism, I haven't heard a good argument yet for why we should try to stem the tide of immigrants in to this vast country of ours. You have to admit, that's part of the equation. Nobody would complain if a bunch of blond hair, blue eyed, English speaking Canadians were crossing the border en masse. So I think we need to be mature and ask ourselves if xenophobia is really a good enough reason to literally build a fence between ourselves and our neighbors.

    No. Population migrations are a natural phenomenon. It's been going on forever. Massive governments and their laws and walls are artificial phenomenon. Nature will find a way.
    America doesn't have enough to allow in everyone who wants to come here. We certainly cannot produce enough jobs to fill for everyone. It's just a really dumb idea.

  2. #222
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    Re: Should we open the borders?

    Quote Originally Posted by 274ina View Post
    you say "undocumented" I say Foreign Criminal. One is right, the other is propoganda.................
    I didn't say either of those.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  3. #223
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    Re: Should we open the borders?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    We should abandon our silly and futile notion of trying to "seal the borders" and just "let the markets work," so to speak.

    I think there should be two conditions that, if satisfied, should allow anyone and everyone to enter or exit the United States at will. First, do they have a job? If yes, then they are productive, and they should be allowed to stay. If not, is there someone willing to claim them as a dependent? Is there someone willing to feed, clothe, school them? If so, there is no reason to keep them out of the country. The second condition is that they don't have a criminal record.

    Why not seal the border? Well, for one, futility. No matter what we do, people find ways to enter the country. So really, we're kicking and screaming, we're pouring countless resources in to fight a "problem" that is probably never going to be resolved.

    Second, aside from pure xenophobia and/or racism, I haven't heard a good argument yet for why we should try to stem the tide of immigrants in to this vast country of ours. You have to admit, that's part of the equation. Nobody would complain if a bunch of blond hair, blue eyed, English speaking Canadians were crossing the border en masse. So I think we need to be mature and ask ourselves if xenophobia is really a good enough reason to literally build a fence between ourselves and our neighbors.

    No. Population migrations are a natural phenomenon. It's been going on forever. Massive governments and their laws and walls are artificial phenomenon. Nature will find a way.
    In other words, our founding fathers wanted the entire earth to have US citizenship.

  4. #224
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    Re: Should we open the borders?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dooble View Post
    In other words, our founding fathers wanted the entire earth to have US citizenship.
    Speculating on what the founders of the United States would have wanted is academic.

  5. #225
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    Re: Should we open the borders?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    Speculating on what the founders of the United States would have wanted is academic.
    While I don't think all this "what the founders would have wanted" is very healthy for people to be thinking in this day and age...

    I must concur with my conservative colleague.

    I don't think the founders wanted the whole world to have US citizenship and this thread and everything you've posted in it is the very opposite of academic.

    It's nonsense.

  6. #226
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    Re: Should we open the borders?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    Speculating on what the founders of the United States would have wanted is academic.
    Because they are dead and America's changing, right?

  7. #227
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    Re: Should we open the borders?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    I went to a top college, Duke, and there were many there who came from overseas. Many of the best and the brightest from around the world attend Duke. Many of my friends from overseas would have loved to have stayed and planted their roots in the United States, but, without corporate sponsorship, they were unable and had to return home.

    That, my friend, is a travesty. A complete waste. We need smart and talented people, or simply people willing to work hard (and you don't get in to Duke unless you're willing to work hard), and what do we do? We send them home.
    I think the idea of a waiting process is silly. You're either someone who can come to this country and immediately contribute or you're not but how do you weed out who is who if you open the country up to everyone?

    There isn't much point in those we want to come here coming here if we're also letting in all those who are dragging their countries down too.

  8. #228
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    Re: Should we open the borders?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dapper Andy View Post
    I think the idea of a waiting process is silly. You're either someone who can come to this country and immediately contribute or you're not but how do you weed out who is who if you open the country up to everyone?
    You don't. The whole idea is for everyone to live under one roof, so to speak, as fairness disciples. Everyone except the Leftist Elite, of course. They each get their own roof.

  9. #229
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    Re: Should we open the borders?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    While I don't think all this "what the founders would have wanted" is very healthy for people to be thinking in this day and age...

    I must concur with my conservative colleague.

    I don't think the founders wanted the whole world to have US citizenship and this thread and everything you've posted in it is the very opposite of academic.

    It's nonsense.
    Was that supposed to be witty? Keep trying, you'll get there eventually.

    No, but seriously.... I never said the whole world ought to have US citizenship. That's a straw man argument because you're attributing a false position to me. My argument is to loosen up our immigration policies and make it simpler to come in to this country, not to allow anyone and everyone access.

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    Re: Should we open the borders?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dooble View Post
    Because they are dead and America's changing, right?
    No, because we don't know what they intended. We do, however, know that shortly after this country was founded, while the memory of the founders and their intentions was fresh in the American consciousness, we had one of the immigration waves in human history.

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