View Poll Results: Should We open the borders?

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  • Yes

    10 12.82%
  • No

    68 87.18%
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Thread: Should we open the borders?

  1. #201
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    Re: Should we open the borders?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    What national security concerns are those?




    Terrorism.

    If we don't control our borders, how do we keep terrorists out?

    Do we want someone bringing a suitcase nuke into the USA?

    I don't think so.

    This goes way beyond people looking for jobs picking grapes and hanging drywall, there are important national security issues involved in this.

    I am not opposed to immigration, I'm married to an immigrant who is now a U.S. citizen.

    But my wife entered the USA legally and that's the only way that anyone should enter the USA.

    For me this not a negotiable issue.




    "If you don't know where you are going, any road will get you there." ~ Lewis Carroll

  2. #202
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    Re: Should we open the borders?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    Read my OP. I set conditions on what I think ought to be the bar for entrance to the USA. Having a job or having someone claim you as a dependent were conditions that I feel must be met.

    I'm not saying let in everybody and anybody.
    We already let people in that have a job. Its called a Job Visa. They just have to prove that they have a job.

    As for dependent...unless it is immediate family, ie wife and kids, then no. That just creates a system where those people could just become dependents on the system.
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

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  3. #203
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    Re: Should we open the borders?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    I never said we ought to invite a billion people to live here, but we could easily sustain that number.

    You can choose to disbelieve if you want, but we have plenty of room. In the map above, you see that most people live on the east coast. Why? Not because the land in New England can sustain more people, but because that's where the first boats landed.

    If you have a billion people, then maybe California starts to resemble New England's current density, Texas starts to resemble California's current density, Colorado starts to resemble Texas' current density....

    You're talking about a little more than doubling the population, but we have from the Atlantic all the way to the Pacific to do it.
    There is a huge difference between having room where they can live and having the ability to sustain people.

    And seriously? "a little more than doubling"? Doubleing would mean 600 million people. "a little" would mean maybe 700 million. Try like triple the population.
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

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  4. #204
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    Re: Should we open the borders?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    We already let people in that have a job. Its called a Job Visa. They just have to prove that they have a job.

    As for dependent...unless it is immediate family, ie wife and kids, then no. That just creates a system where those people could just become dependents on the system.
    Alright, I'm starting to get frustrated with you, so I don't know if I'm going to keep debating you on this. I will try very slowly to spell this out. Yes, we already have job visas. The whole entire point of my OP is to say that I want the requirements for obtaining a job visa to be loosened.

    If you don't think so, then tell me why they shouldn't be loosened. That's the debate. The debate is not about opening up the borders for everyone and anyone. The debate is not about getting rid of the visa system. Capiche?

    Please read the OP again so you actually understand what I'm saying. It's quite annoying arguing against straw men.

  5. #205
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    Re: Should we open the borders?

    Quote Originally Posted by shrubnose View Post
    Terrorism.

    If we don't control our borders, how do we keep terrorists out?

    Do we want someone bringing a suitcase nuke into the USA?

    I don't think so.

    This goes way beyond people looking for jobs picking grapes and hanging drywall, there are important national security issues involved in this.

    I am not opposed to immigration, I'm married to an immigrant who is now a U.S. citizen.

    But my wife entered the USA legally and that's the only way that anyone should enter the USA.

    For me this not a negotiable issue.




    "If you don't know where you are going, any road will get you there." ~ Lewis Carroll

    When did I say we shouldn't control the borders? I'm beginning to think you read the headline, but never read the text of the OP. In which case, I'm wasting my time.

    I myself am a legal immigrant.

  6. #206
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    Re: Should we open the borders?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    When did I say we shouldn't control the borders? I'm beginning to think you read the headline, but never read the text of the OP. In which case, I'm wasting my time.

    I myself am a legal immigrant.



    Well, it looks like maybe we're on the same page then, I totally support legal immigration. The USA has room for and needs a lot more people.

  7. #207
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    Re: Should we open the borders?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    Would you say the same if someone deported you?
    If I was illegally residing in another country it would be completely reasonable and rational for me to be deported.

  8. #208
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    Re: Should we open the borders?

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    If I was illegally residing in another country it would be completely reasonable and rational for me to be deported.
    Way to move the goalposts. That's not what I asked.

  9. #209
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    Re: Should we open the borders?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    Way to move the goalposts. That's not what I asked.
    Why would I be deported? Because I'm in another country illegally? That's hard to say because personally I don't plan on violating another nation's laws or illegally overstaying a visa. I guess if I did it would be accidental and in that scenario I'd explain myself but ultimately comply with deportation since I'm there illegally.

  10. #210
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    Re: Should we open the borders?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    Alright, I'm starting to get frustrated with you, so I don't know if I'm going to keep debating you on this. I will try very slowly to spell this out. Yes, we already have job visas. The whole entire point of my OP is to say that I want the requirements for obtaining a job visa to be loosened.
    How much looser do you want it? All you need for a work visa is a clean record, no medical conditions and an employer to sponsor you. You don't even have to be able to read or write.

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    Please read the OP again so you actually understand what I'm saying. It's quite annoying arguing against straw men.
    Yes, it is.
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

    My mind and my heart are saying I'm in my twenties. My body is pointing at my mind and heart and laughing its ass off. ~ Kal'Stang

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