View Poll Results: Should We open the borders?

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  • Yes

    10 12.82%
  • No

    68 87.18%
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Thread: Should we open the borders?

  1. #151
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    Re: Should we open the borders?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    We should abandon our silly and futile notion of trying to "seal the borders" and just "let the markets work," so to speak.

    I think there should be two conditions that, if satisfied, should allow anyone and everyone to enter or exit the United States at will. First, do they have a job? If yes, then they are productive, and they should be allowed to stay. If not, is there someone willing to claim them as a dependent? Is there someone willing to feed, clothe, school them? If so, there is no reason to keep them out of the country. The second condition is that they don't have a criminal record.

    Why not seal the border? Well, for one, futility. No matter what we do, people find ways to enter the country. So really, we're kicking and screaming, we're pouring countless resources in to fight a "problem" that is probably never going to be resolved.

    Second, aside from pure xenophobia and/or racism, I haven't heard a good argument yet for why we should try to stem the tide of immigrants in to this vast country of ours. You have to admit, that's part of the equation. Nobody would complain if a bunch of blond hair, blue eyed, English speaking Canadians were crossing the border en masse. So I think we need to be mature and ask ourselves if xenophobia is really a good enough reason to literally build a fence between ourselves and our neighbors.

    No. Population migrations are a natural phenomenon. It's been going on forever. Massive governments and their laws and walls are artificial phenomenon. Nature will find a way.
    The words from this post make a hell of a lot more sense that the policies(dating from the dark ages) in effect today..

  2. #152
    Educator HumanBeing's Avatar
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    Re: Should we open the borders?

    Quote Originally Posted by ReformCollege View Post
    There is something called legal citizenship. I'm all for allowing more people to come in here legally, but I am definitely not for allowing our laws on the books to go unenforced.
    As I already said, the legal route is crazy. I have to commit to a $1 million business investment and agree to hire at least 10 full time employees just to get a residency visa for a shot at eventually getting a citizenship. It's a terrible way to do business, and it doesn't even guarantee me a citizenship.

  3. #153
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    Re: Should we open the borders?

    Quote Originally Posted by GottaGo View Post
    First, the government involvement in order to perform background checks (for criminal activity), verification of valid employment (not the bs of just saying they have a job), making sure they are paying taxes as an employee should, would far exceed what exists now in rounding people up after the fact, and attempting to prevent new illegal immigrants.
    Put the onus on them. Make them do all the work. After all, they're motivated. You don't perform a background check, oh heavens no. You make them go to the Mexican (or whatever) government and get a voucher that they're clean. You make them get verification of employment or, if we're talking about somebody's grandmother, a legal voucher that someone will pay for their costs (food, medical, etc).


    Quote Originally Posted by GottaGo View Post
    Second, not all illegal immigrants are coming from the south. Russians, Uzbekistanis, Jamaicans, Asians are coming on assorted Visas just to get here, and finding employment and staying long past the expiration of those Visas.

    Illegal is the key here. I don't care where they come from, as long as they follow proper channels, such as a close family member did. Took 6 months to do so, but they did it the right way.
    Good, I like Russians. Anyone willing to cross an ocean to get here is properly motivated.

  4. #154
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    Re: Should we open the borders?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Should we loosen the law, make it easier to get a visa, make it easier to become a citizen? Yes.
    Should we just open the border? No.
    I agree with this. There is a very serious threat south of our border with drugs and cartels and it would be extremely foolish to open borders with this problem. We need protection to keep as much of that threat out. Unless you want severed heads rolling around El Paso.
    I call my own shots, largely based on an accumulation of data, and everyone knows it.
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  5. #155
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    RE: Should we open the borders?

    I'm for open borders with no welfare/free anything.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarcogito View Post
    In theory I am for open borders. However, I just don't see it working if other countries don't open their borders as well.
    Sent from my Nokia Lumia 920 using Board Express

  6. #156
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    Re: Should we open the borders?

    Quote Originally Posted by HumanBeing View Post
    As I already said, the legal route is crazy. I have to commit to a $1 million business investment and agree to hire at least 10 full time employees just to get a residency visa for a shot at eventually getting a citizenship. It's a terrible way to do business, and it doesn't even guarantee me a citizenship.
    We aren't allowing anyone here legally pretty much because we already have an over abundance of people here illegally. It needs to be the other way around. My point is, we can discuss reforming the legal path to citizenship, but that is absolutely no excuse for having an open border and not enforcing any of our laws.

  7. #157
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    Re: Should we open the borders?

    How about if we use this metric the other direction as well. If you are a long term leech on government programs you should be exported. We have people here who claim they can not find work while others are coming in to the country to work. From a numbers perspective it does not matter if it is the immigrant or the citizen that is government dependent. You have two people, one job, and one person who is a net loss to the country. So sure, let the guy who wants to work come on in as long as the guy who wants to sit on his ass and pull a government check has to leave.

  8. #158
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    Re: Should we open the borders?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    Put the onus on them. Make them do all the work. After all, they're motivated. You don't perform a background check, oh heavens no. You make them go to the Mexican (or whatever) government and get a voucher that they're clean.
    As someone who has spent a lot of time living in some of the most corrupt nations on earth, I'd like to point out the obvious floor in that plan. I agree 100% with everything else you said.

  9. #159
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    Re: Should we open the borders?

    Quote Originally Posted by HumanBeing View Post
    As I already said, the legal route is crazy. I have to commit to a $1 million business investment and agree to hire at least 10 full time employees just to get a residency visa for a shot at eventually getting a citizenship. It's a terrible way to do business, and it doesn't even guarantee me a citizenship.
    Try Canada, though surprisingly from what we hear all the time, it's not any easier immigrating there. However, they do have this new program - "VIP Business Immigration Program, which allows immigrants with sufficient business experience or management experience to receive the Permanent Residency in a shorter period than other types of immigrations."

  10. #160
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    Re: Should we open the borders?

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    Try Canada, though surprisingly from what we hear all the time, it's not any easier immigrating there. However, they do have this new program - "VIP Business Immigration Program, which allows immigrants with sufficient business experience or management experience to receive the Permanent Residency in a shorter period than other types of immigrations."
    The whole thing of compulsory investment without any guarantee of citizenship is dangerous no matter where you do it. There are lots of cases of people investing large sums of money into countries and then having their visas revoked (this is more of an issue in developing nations). I want to live in the US because I want the rights that would be guaranteed to me as an American citizen under the constitution. While it's possible for citizenships of naturalized US citizens to be revoked, the circumstances under which that could occur are not relevant to me and never will be so I don't care. Visas are different, they can be revoked for a variety of petty reasons, like accidentally driving from one state to another with something that would be legal in the first state but not the second.

    If the EB-5 visa was a citizenship, I'd probably go for it despite my objections to the way it's structured. As it stands, I have to invest a million bucks and employ ten people just for the chance to apply for a citizenship after 5 years, which I might still get rejected for. A million bucks, ten staff, and I don't even get the right to vote (not that I'm into voting anyway, but it's the idea of the whole thing).

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