View Poll Results: Should we do away with marriage as a legal status?

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Thread: Should we do away with marriage as a legal status?

  1. #51
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    Re: Should we do away with marriage as a legal status?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    In Scandinavia, hardly anyone gets married anymore. What is the point? If you love someone, you can live with them. In Sweden, they call this "sambo."

    Now, there is all this fussing and fighting, hooting and hollering over what marriage ought to be, who ought to be allowed to marry whom, etc.

    So I say like the ever forward-thinking and practical Swedes: What's the point?
    There's a difference between Swedish society and ours. Unless you're also willing to adopt other Swedish ways it's a false analogy.


    But I'm certainly all in for deleting "marriage" from the law books and changing it to civil union, civil partnership, or whatever. That would also resolve the issue of "We own that word and you can't use it!"
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  2. #52
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    Re: Should we do away with marriage as a legal status?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    There's a difference between Swedish society and ours. Unless you're also willing to adopt other Swedish ways it's a false analogy.


    But I'm certainly all in for deleting "marriage" from the law books and changing it to civil union, civil partnership, or whatever. That would also resolve the issue of "We own that word and you can't use it!"
    ...by letting them own the word so that we can't use it?

  3. #53
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    Re: Should we do away with marriage as a legal status?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    ...by letting them own the word so that we can't use it?
    They still wouldn't own it but it wouldn't be of use in the legal system at all. Then people can have whatever ceremony they want and call it whatever they want - but if they want their union to be legally recognized by society it won't be a "marriage" license they'll be registering, it'll be something else.
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    Re: Should we do away with marriage as a legal status?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    They still wouldn't own it but it wouldn't be of use in the legal system at all. Then people can have whatever ceremony they want and call it whatever they want - but if they want their union to be legally recognized by society it won't be a "marriage" license they'll be registering, it'll be something else.
    And the avantage of this over the current system would be...?

  5. #55
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    Re: Should we do away with marriage as a legal status?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    And the avantage of this over the current system would be...?
    That it would end the problem without changing a damn thing legally.


    On a personal note, I think it would probably piss off the religious people that expect their marriage to be recognized by society. It wouldn't work that way anymore. They'd have to register as a civil union or whatever just like everyone else - or not, as they see fit.
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
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    Re: Should we do away with marriage as a legal status?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    That it would end the problem without changing a damn thing legally.
    And how would you define the "problem"?

  7. #57
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    Re: Should we do away with marriage as a legal status?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    Again, I'll point to the example of Sweden, because, over there, very few people actually get married anymore, though very many people have children and pass on their possessions to their children when they die.

    You nearly always have joint custody of children, as they are BOTH your children (it doesn't matter if you're married), and inheritance goes to whoever you have in your will. That's why most people in Sweden will have a will - that's something everyone should always do.

    Children born to parents in a sambo relationship normally have the same family name as the father unless the parents have agreed to another surname, for example; the mother’s. Two of my cousins, for example, have their mother's surname, and a couple more have their maternal grandmother's surname.

    When a married couple split up there are laws governing the disposition of their home and household goods (division of joint property of husband and wife). The sambo law has similar regulations for “sambo” couples who split up. The home is then divided in a similar manner as if they were married.

    However, sambo couples do not inherit each other’s assets as married couples do. Since they do not inherit or become beneficiaries of each other’s property, it is important for sambos to have a joint will (last will and testament). A good example of this importance is Stieg Larsson, the renowned Swedish writer who lived sambo for many years with Eva Gabrielsson. When he died in 2004, his father and brother, not Eva, inherited his wealth worth millions. There were law suits and a settlement, but this could have been avoided with a will.
    All of which requires laws that determine how a family unit legally operates. The only difference is that they're forgoing a formal marriage ceremony and calling it something different. Which is just the tired old "seperate but equal" argument.
    Liberté. Égalité. Fraternité.

  8. #58
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    Re: Should we do away with marriage as a legal status?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    And how would you define the "problem"?
    The seeming "fact" that religious people don't want gays being "married".

    To me the solution is obvious, then, no one gets to be legally married. Society will ignore church marriages just as much as it will ignore gay marriages.
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    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
    After you learn quantum mechanics you're never really the same again. -Weinberg

  9. #59
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    Re: Should we do away with marriage as a legal status?

    I think government should be out of the marriage business.

    While everyone wants to frame this in terms of gays, who it also REALLY hits is seniors and families. The marriage penalty can be HUGE and prohibitive against marriage because if married the government combines their income in calculations and not if they aren't. For this reason, it can be so costly for couples to marry due to benefits issues they literally dare not do so.

    A young couple we know have three YOUNG children, not much income and dare not remarry. They divorced in part due to huge financial pressures, but are back together - though not married and technically must pay for two different housing situations - because they would lost more than they could withstand in government assistance. One has 1 child, the other has 2. By NOT being married, the government assists both with food stamps, housing and utilities assistance, daycare assistance etc etc. BUT if they marry then the income becomes joint and they lose most benefits.

    In that and in many other ways, the government pays people to divorce and have broken families. It is NOT just about gay rights.

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    Re: Should we do away with marriage as a legal status?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    The seeming "fact" that religious people don't want gays being "married". To me the solution is simple, then, no one gets to be legally married. Society will ignore church marriages just as much as it will ignore gay marriages.
    Um...no. Every religion has some arbitrary belief system, and I doubt you'd have to look very hard to find one that believes any of a number of things that disqualify me from common privileges I take for granted. So with all due respect religious people, at least in this context, can bite me.

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