View Poll Results: Should we do away with marriage as a legal status?

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Thread: Should we do away with marriage as a legal status?

  1. #21
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    Re: Should we do away with marriage as a legal status?

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    If this were coming from anybody else I might believe it. It seems more like you've finally realized you're going to lose the SSM battle, and you're trying to set it aflame on the way out.

    I don't think we should get rid of the legal element because there are simply far too many important advantages. I simply think that anybody who wants to get married should.

    Or that we base the benefits off of domiciles, ie: if you're living together you're seen as one unit.
    Yeah I've found it curious how the "Let's get rid of marriage altogether" argument has been going around of late.

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    Re: Should we do away with marriage as a legal status?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    No, it's exactly the same, just on a different scale. Keep in mind, I'm not arguing for exclusivity of marriage for anyone. I even tend to side with the polygamists, though I do point out how messy it could get with issues like inheritance or medical proxy. But there have been laws and rules about marriage for thousands of years. And they're fairly important. English common law, which informs most of US law, dealt with issues of marriage and inheritance centuries before the United States existed. Having a set of criteria for awarding custody of children to parents in situations of divorce is a law about marriage. Do you really want all such decisions to be done ad hoc, simply up to the discretion of a judge? But even then, government is a part of that marriage, since a judge is deciding something.

    If you want to do away with the heteroexclusivity of marriage, you should. I'm a pretty rabid SSM supporter. If you want to do away with tax breaks for married couples, that's fine. But I promise you that you don't want to suddenly no longer have law governing inheritance and child custody. And we certainly want laws against adults marrying minors, don't we? Are we going full on to polygamy? Then when he wants a second wife and she doesn't, someone has to decide whether or not the third partner is accepted into that marriage. Suppose there is no rule, suppose he says the third partner is in, and she says that the third partner isn't. When she divorces him, does she get half the property or a third? Do they have to sit in a room and argue it until they reach a settlement? What if they never do? Can they not divorce without one? ALL OF THIS REQUIRES LAW TO FIGURE OUT!!

    Anything involving joint custody of property or children will have to have laws governing them. There is no way around that.
    Again, I'll point to the example of Sweden, because, over there, very few people actually get married anymore, though very many people have children and pass on their possessions to their children when they die.

    You nearly always have joint custody of children, as they are BOTH your children (it doesn't matter if you're married), and inheritance goes to whoever you have in your will. That's why most people in Sweden will have a will - that's something everyone should always do.

    Children born to parents in a sambo relationship normally have the same family name as the father unless the parents have agreed to another surname, for example; the mother’s. Two of my cousins, for example, have their mother's surname, and a couple more have their maternal grandmother's surname.

    When a married couple split up there are laws governing the disposition of their home and household goods (division of joint property of husband and wife). The sambo law has similar regulations for “sambo” couples who split up. The home is then divided in a similar manner as if they were married.

    However, sambo couples do not inherit each other’s assets as married couples do. Since they do not inherit or become beneficiaries of each other’s property, it is important for sambos to have a joint will (last will and testament). A good example of this importance is Stieg Larsson, the renowned Swedish writer who lived sambo for many years with Eva Gabrielsson. When he died in 2004, his father and brother, not Eva, inherited his wealth worth millions. There were law suits and a settlement, but this could have been avoided with a will.

  3. #23
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    Re: Should we do away with marriage as a legal status?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    In Scandinavia, hardly anyone gets married anymore. What is the point? If you love someone, you can live with them. In Sweden, they call this "sambo."

    There was a time when pretty much everyone agreed on the definition of marriage... so it worked. Marriage was between a man and a woman, it was a sacred bond, and divorce was an unthinkable stigma. Slowly, for better or for worse, in sickness and in health.... our perceptions have changed.

    Now, there is all this fussing and fighting, hooting and hollering over what marriage ought to be, who ought to be allowed to marry whom, etc.

    So I say like the ever forward-thinking and practical Swedes: What's the point?

    Government shouldn't need to be involved in marriage. For those who want to get married and have a ceremony and wear the pretty dress, you can do so. Go to your church and get married, or your mosque, or your temple, or your favorite casino with a midget elvis impersonator holding the proceedings.... whatever floats your boat.

    Wear your pretty dress, have your day in the sun.

    But get rid of marriage as a legal status. It serves no purpose except to make society fight over nothing.
    No.

    ....

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    Re: Should we do away with marriage as a legal status?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    No.

    ....

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    Re: Should we do away with marriage as a legal status?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    Sorry, I've just been through this already.

    Them: Oh, this gay marriage! Let's just get the government out of it altogether!
    Me: Why?
    Them: so the government doesn't intrude in your personal affairs.
    Me: they're not.
    Them: well, they're telling gays they can't get married!
    Me: that's why there's a push for legalized gay marriage.
    Them: Don't you want more freedom?
    Me: For who?
    Them: For everybody!
    Me: To do what?
    Them: to get married to who you want.
    Me: I can do that.
    Them: it's not just about yourself.
    Me: Well, okay, but what's in it for you? How do you benefit from it?
    *Crickets*

    The debate usually gets a lot more convoluted and stupid from that point on, but that's the jist of it. I can't get a straight answer how I would benefit from it, I can't get a straight answer about how they benefit from it. And that's pretty much because they haven't made one up yet.

  6. #26
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    Re: Should we do away with marriage as a legal status?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    I can't get a straight answer how I would benefit from it, I can't get a straight answer about how they benefit from it.
    Admittedly life is simpler when you only care about yourself and what is in it for you.

  7. #27
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    Re: Should we do away with marriage as a legal status?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    Sorry, I've just been through this already.

    Them: Oh, this gay marriage! Let's just get the government out of it altogether!
    Me: Why?
    Them: so the government doesn't intrude in your personal affairs.
    Me: they're not.
    Them: well, they're telling gays they can't get married!
    Me: that's why there's a push for legalized gay marriage.
    Them: Don't you want more freedom?
    Me: For who?
    Them: For everybody!
    Me: To do what?
    Them: to get married to who you want.
    Me: I can do that.
    Them: it's not just about yourself.
    Me: Well, okay, but what's in it for you? How do you benefit from it?
    *Crickets*

    The debate usually gets a lot more convoluted and stupid from that point on, but that's the jist of it. I can't get a straight answer how I would benefit from it, I can't get a straight answer about how they benefit from it. And that's pretty much because they haven't made one up yet.
    People have been arguing to get government out of marriage well before gay marriage ever became an issue.

  8. #28
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    Re: Should we do away with marriage as a legal status?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarcogito View Post
    Admittedly life is simpler when you only care about yourself and what is in it for you.
    Yup. No straight answer. Also:

    Me: Well, okay, but what's in it for you? How do you benefit from it?
    *Crickets*

    Like I said, I've been through this already.

  9. #29
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    Re: Should we do away with marriage as a legal status?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    People have been arguing to get government out of marriage well before gay marriage ever became an issue.
    And yet...this topic only comes up during gay marriage debates, or right around when another states legalizes it. Funny that.

  10. #30
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    Re: Should we do away with marriage as a legal status?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    When? Since racially integrated marriages?
    Why do you assume it's based on bigotry? People have had the position government shouldn't be in the marriage business since the beginning.

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