View Poll Results: Should we do away with marriage as a legal status?

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Thread: Should we do away with marriage as a legal status?

  1. #261
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    Re: Should we do away with marriage as a legal status?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    You haven't proven that any couple, let alone most couples, are putting in a "smaller slice" by being married. You provided nothing but your own unsubstantiated assumptions.
    It's not really a matter of opinion. The tax code is in black and white and hardly subjective. Do a little research for yourself if you have questions.

    Internal Revenue Service

    Specifically, look at the write-offs married couples receive that single people do not.

  2. #262
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    Re: Should we do away with marriage as a legal status?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    They pick the candidates and you vote on their choices. What do you think?
    To which "they" do you refer?


    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    It's a government contract. Who do you think writes the terms of that contract?
    Civil courts are a government contract???
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  3. #263
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    Re: Should we do away with marriage as a legal status?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    It's not really a matter of opinion. The tax code is in black and white and hardly subjective. Do a little research for yourself if you have questions.

    Internal Revenue Service

    Specifically, look at the write-offs married couples receive that single people do not.
    I covered most of the tax differences in earlier posts.
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
    Life goes on within you and without you. -Harrison
    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
    After you learn quantum mechanics you're never really the same again. -Weinberg

  4. #264
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    Re: Should we do away with marriage as a legal status?

    Quote Originally Posted by HumanBeing View Post
    So why can't people register any relationship they want and get the same benefits? Why does it have to be between a husband and wife?
    That is what is trying to be changed. Allowing a husband and a husband to register or a wife and a wife. At the moment, that is unfair. Once this gets changed, it will be much more fair in who is able to register their relationships to become legal spouses. Not everyone should be considered legal spouses just because they want to own property together or get the perks, because marriage actually is something that does give benefits to society when it is two people who plan to stay together in a relationship for a long time. That commitment and stability between adults is what brings the benefits to society. And that is why such people get certain "extras" for making that commitment. But they also agree to certain responsibilities over the other person as well. It isn't all just benefits. For most committed couples, the benefits are worth the extra responsibility (at least til there is a divorce). And for the government, the benefits of marriage on society are worth the extra perks of encouraging marriage. Now, admittedly part of it is simply something we are used to, but when we can determine that there are some benefits to marriage, very few problems that would not exist anyway, and people want the convenience of marriage, then why do other people care? If it is the government giving certain monetary perks of marriage, fine, work to have those changed by showing the population why they should be changed and are "unfair", but don't simply support the government not being involved because you believe they are causing an issue. This is the one area where government actually does a pretty decent job and is pretty efficient. Obviously there needs to be some changes to make it more fair to have access, particularly speaking of the current sex/gender discrimination, but the system as a whole actually works out very well.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  5. #265
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    Re: Should we do away with marriage as a legal status?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    It's not really a matter of opinion. The tax code is in black and white and hardly subjective. Do a little research for yourself if you have questions.

    Internal Revenue Service

    Specifically, look at the write-offs married couples receive that single people do not.
    How about you be more specific? What exact writeoffs do married people get that single people don't? Anyone can get the EITC, child and dependent care credits, education credit, adoption credit, HCTC, saver's credit, sale's tax credit, and that covers those listed. There is also "head of household", which can be filed by individuals. I did this when I was single and claimed a relative who was living with me. So which ones are there that only married people can get?

    Plus, people with children get writeoffs childless individuals don't. People with houses can get writeoffs that those who rent cannot. People who are in school get writeoffs those who aren't don't. People who invest get writeoffs those who don't can't get. People involved in businesses, such as owning their own, get writeoffs others can't. Those who work in a uniform can get writeoffs that those who don't can't get. There are many writeoffs on taxes that certain people can get while others can't just because those who get them do things, such as entering into a contract or taking a risk or taking care of another person, that others don't do.

    I've done the research I need to do. You are the one making the claim that marriage costs you and other single people money. Therefore, it is your responsibility to show how they are and why that is unfair when other things aren't. Plus, you need to show why completely removing marriage is the best answer, rather than simply changing the tax code back to what it was before, when married couples ended up paying more taxes as a whole than single taxpayers.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  6. #266
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    Re: Should we do away with marriage as a legal status?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    That is what is trying to be changed. Allowing a husband and a husband to register or a wife and a wife
    It's still giving married couples financial benefits over people who are responsible enough not to make promises they can't keep. I'm not gay, I just don't want to get married right now. Why does that mean I should pay more tax than you? If me and a friend decide to buy a house together and share it, why shouldn't we get the same benefits? I contribute more to the economy than you and your wife combined, what right do you have to sit and tell me about the benefits and responsibilities of marriage when you could be divorced by the end of the week?

    If this is about shared property, then make it available to all shared property owners. Marriage should be a personal thing, the government shouldn't be involved with it.

  7. #267
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    Re: Should we do away with marriage as a legal status?

    Quote Originally Posted by HumanBeing View Post
    It's still giving married couples financial benefits over people who are responsible enough not to make promises they can't keep. I'm not gay, I just don't want to get married right now. Why does that mean I should pay more tax than you? If me and a friend decide to buy a house together and share it, why shouldn't we get the same benefits? I contribute more to the economy than you and your wife combined, what right do you have to sit and tell me about the benefits and responsibilities of marriage when you could be divorced by the end of the week?

    If this is about shared property, then make it available to all shared property owners. Marriage should be a personal thing, the government shouldn't be involved with it.
    Except you are making an assumption that they are haven't made any promises. Just because the promise isn't on paper, doesn't mean it wasn't made. "I'll take care of you baby for the rest of your life, don't worry, we don't need paperwork to prove that. Don't you trust me?" This is still a promise. It is a less protected promise but one that is unfortunately made all the time.

    You need to prove that you pay more taxes than me. As an individual, I technically pay more taxes than I would if I were single, my husband is the one who may pay less (he makes more than I do).

    But there are plenty of tax disparities because the government gives tax incentives for things that society considers a positive, including taking care of children, adopting children (an additional tax credit to the child credit itself), donating time/money to charity, making their property more energy efficient, going to school, going overseas to combat, and many other things.

    You don't get the extra benefits because it is not likely that you need them or want them to begin with (most friends buying property with each other have separate interests in that property and would be more likely to want to leave that interest to someone else, whereas a married couple is owning that property as one person, where they cannot give their "half" of the property to anyone (without specifying that they want to do so in the original agreement to buy it) because they are considered a single person). But along with this, you are not agreeing to the other conditions that are the reason that the benefits are given. Why should you get the perks without the downfalls that come with it? If you are willing to take the negatives, then there should be nothing to prevent you from getting married to your friend just for all the benefits as long as you are willing to take the responsibilities on as well.

    I could be divorced (not likely though) but that doesn't cost you any more money than if my husband and I were simply living together without marriage and decided to breakup. If you think differently, prove it with numbers. So far, you haven't shown how my being in a marriage contract affects you at all.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  8. #268
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    Re: Should we do away with marriage as a legal status?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Except you are making an assumption that they are haven't made any promises. Just because the promise isn't on paper, doesn't mean it wasn't made. "I'll take care of you baby for the rest of your life, don't worry, we don't need paperwork to prove that. Don't you trust me?" This is still a promise. It is a less protected promise but one that is unfortunately made all the time.
    And they have laws for that, it's called child support, I guarantee you absolutely don't even want to get me started on that one. Point is, you still have that responsibility whether you are married or not. Sure, they made promises, but they can still get divorced and break the promises without losing anything other than financial benefits that they shouldn't have been getting in the first place.

    I can't give a specific viewpoint on US taxes because sadly I don't live there yet, though my general view on taxation is that it is a form of theft by threat of violence and imprisonment, but I'm also willing to pay it for the same reason. Taxes in the US are substantially lower than where I was born and raised, and are also a lot lower than where I am right now.
    Last edited by HumanBeing; 05-24-13 at 12:34 PM.

  9. #269
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    Re: Should we do away with marriage as a legal status?

    Quote Originally Posted by HumanBeing View Post
    And they have laws for that, it's called child support, I guarantee you absolutely don't even want to get me started on that one. Point is, you still have that responsibility whether you are married or not. Sure, they made promises, but they can still get divorced and break the promises without losing anything other than financial benefits that they shouldn't have been getting in the first place.
    Who said anything about children? Adults promise to take care of each other, no children involved and default on that promise, leaving the "promised" party with bills and/or no job skills/experience and/or with problems caused by that promise with no legal protection for it. The divorce is the legal protection for those promises. It ensures that both people's contribution into the agreed upon arrangement are taken into account when it comes to deciding who gets what.

    Tell me what benefits they shouldn't be getting in the first place. What parts of marriage are so burdensome to you and others exactly that couples shouldn't have them just for agreeing to be with each other, even if it doesn't last as long as they thought it would?
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  10. #270
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    Re: Should we do away with marriage as a legal status?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Tell me what benefits they shouldn't be getting in the first place. What parts of marriage are so burdensome to you and others exactly that couples shouldn't have them just for agreeing to be with each other, even if it doesn't last as long as they thought it would?
    As I said, I don't currently live in the US, but the main one that bothers me everywhere I go is the opportunity to pay less income tax by filing joint tax returns. This can occasionally work the opposite way, but more often than not it leads to married couples getting to keep more of the money they earn than me. Or to put it another way, they get less stolen from them. Depending on the country, married couples also sometimes get a flat rate deduction on their income taxes and capital gains.

    Income tax is a big deal to a lot of people. If I could abolish it outright I would. Failing that, I think the rules should be the same for everyone. Government tax breaks are just another manipulation of enslaved economies. They steal your money and make you think they are being generous when they agree to steal slightly less.

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