View Poll Results: Is fascism left or right wing?

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Thread: Is Fascism Right Wing?

  1. #71
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    Re: Is Fascism Right Wing?

    In other areas of the world, Fascism was a part of the right-wing. The United States has never known Fascism. The right-wing of our political arena is a proponent of small government. The left wing, however, is a proponent for big government. Fascism is massive government, therefore, Fascism in the US would be a left-wing idea.


  2. #72
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    Re: Is Fascism Right Wing?

    Wow, an entire thread of people trying to distance their own political ideologies from Nazis. It's a Godwin-based proposition in the first place. That's why the left/right scale doesn't really work too well. DemSocialist is right to put it in the economic/social scale, which puts fascism as highly authoritarian and highly centralized in the beneficiaries of its efforts. A few people have a lot of control and only those few people benefit. Pretty much it's all bad. Meanwhile, Cyrylek has a bizarre definition that basically labels any central authority at all as "left", which has nothing to do with any actual movements or their descriptions of themselves. It's just a person labeling himself as right wing and everything he dislikes as left wing. Left and right are not based simply on big government vs small government, nor based on religion vs non-religion, or some other single issue scale. It's much more complicated than that. I would label fascism as right wing based on its authoritarian nature, but I recognize that anarchy would be personal freedom taken to the extreme, so more personal freedom doesn't always mean good. I consider a socialist system good, despite its greater authority than some other systems, and I would consider socialism left. So, I think a single left/right scale is pretty useless to us. Republican and Democrat work, because we have polarized our politics into two parties, but that's really a poor choice on our part. Most ideas are more complicated than R vs D.

    Fascism is essentially the polar opposite of what I advocate as a socialist. It centralizes authority far beyond what I consider a reasonable level, removing checks and balances, voting, civil rights, and responsibility of the government to the people. All power is given over to a small group of stagnant people. Fascism is essentially a modern form of monarchy and aristocracy, though less based on inherited ownership of land. Very little power is retained by the people. Far too little, in my opinion. And then a fascist government also centralizes the benefits of that government.

    The biggest problem with both the Nazi and Soviet governments for a discussion like this is that they were so centralized that regime and government type are inseparable. The Nazi government made no provisions to account for a different party taking power in the future. They were just as much about securing power for the singular group in power as the actual textual tenets of fascism and communism. Removal of this element would make a huge difference in evaluating the government systems. A truly democratic fascist system might be a wholly different animal. I think that fascism is necessarily anti-democratic, but communism done correctly requires democracy.

    The difference between communism and fascism, essentially, is the intended recipients of the strong centralized power. In fascism, it is merely a few people at the top, while communism attempts to disseminate those benefits. None of our prominent communist regimes have actually tried to do that, but this thread is about fascism, so we'll leave that for another time. Fascism attempts to control everything for the purpose of benefiting the state over the people, which tends to mean the people in charge of the state. The way that the Nazis did this necessarily equated the one political organization in power with the people in charge. It would be very interesting to see a communist or fascist system play out with multiple political parties and organizations, but as I said above, I think fascism is necessarily prohibitive of that kind of democratic control.

    As a socialist, I believe that the state IS the people, and that protecting and supporting the people is the primary directive upon a good government. So, I find fascism completely antithetical to my positions as a supporter of democratic and socialist systems.
    Last edited by Paschendale; 05-21-13 at 06:30 PM.
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  3. #73
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    Re: Is Fascism Right Wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Josie View Post
    In other areas of the world, Fascism was a part of the right-wing. The United States has never known Fascism. The right-wing of our political arena is a proponent of small government. The left wing, however, is a proponent for big government. Fascism is massive government, therefore, Fascism in the US would be a left-wing idea.
    Libertarians have some of the most twisted sets of definitions I have ever seen. They see laws meant to protect the individual from social and economic harm (from Dems) as "big govt" while they ignore the huge surveillance bureaucracies created primarily by the right wing....and then try to label the left as the fascists.

    The US does know fascism, all one has to do is to visit Stormfront to see fascism in the US. With that, all one has to do is to right down the basic ideas presented there and compare them to the major parties in the US.
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  4. #74
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    Re: Is Fascism Right Wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Indeed View Post
    In school, I was taught that fascism was not in fact right wing, but compared to American Government, it was very much left wing. Our history class taught that the Nazi party of Germany had a meeting with the Communist Party of Germany to discuss a number of things starting on what slogans would be and what category they would say they were. Fascists were very much left wing, but they looked like right wing extremists compared to the communists, so they decided to call the communists left wing and call the fascists right wing to avoid confusion.
    Fascism is left wing because you cannot own a business or large home if you don't toe the line that the ruling party draws.. If you don't toe the line, they take your business and give it to someone who will. It is far right of either communism or socialism in that it allows private property at all. In socialism the government owns all the business and makes sure that everyone is paid equally, and in communism the gov't owns everything and makes sure that everyone has everything they need.
    So fascism is far right of communism but still pretty far left of American conservatism. It's somewhere in the middle.
    You need to stop looking at the political spectrum as a line. It's a circle, anarchy being in one point on the circle and fascism/communism side by side on the opposite point on the circle.
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  5. #75
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    Re: Is Fascism Right Wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Josie View Post
    In other areas of the world, Fascism was a part of the right-wing. The United States has never known Fascism. The right-wing of our political arena is a proponent of small government. The left wing, however, is a proponent for big government. Fascism is massive government, therefore, Fascism in the US would be a left-wing idea.
    In the US, anarchists are extreme right wing, theocrats are extreme left wing.
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  6. #76
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    Re: Is Fascism Right Wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by What if...? View Post
    Public financing of elections.

    Make political ad time a condition of fcc liscensing under existing PSA structure. Include the top three parties, distribute time by lottery.
    Nice, so only the "top 3 parties" are allowed to have a voice. This is your solution to people picking our candidates for us? Having....people pick our candidates for us? Try again.

    Overhaul the mechanics of the lobbying process to better address the "redress of grievances" without biasing towards money.

    Look at the structural issues at the heart of OUR COUNTRY'S problems and address them.

    And your list of people I didn't vot for is inaccurate. I DID vote for nader once and would vote for kucinich if he ran where I live. I distrust the market fundamentalism of libertarianism, BECAUSE it fosters corruption of government.
    That's false by definition because under a libertarian system the government wouldn't have favors to sell in the first place. It's your system, statism, that is to blame for the current corporate state.

  7. #77
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    Re: Is Fascism Right Wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Indeed View Post
    In socialism the government owns all the business and makes sure that everyone is paid equally, and in communism the gov't owns everything and makes sure that everyone has everything they need.



    "Communism means, 'Everyone wearing glasses gets their heads staved in with rifle butts,' while Socialism means, 'Drinks and smokes on the middle class'!" ~ Steve Mayer

  8. #78
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    Re: Is Fascism Right Wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Josie View Post
    In other areas of the world, Fascism was a part of the right-wing. The United States has never known Fascism. The right-wing of our political arena is a proponent of small government. The left wing, however, is a proponent for big government. Fascism is massive government, therefore, Fascism in the US would be a left-wing idea.
    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    It's traditionally considered right-wing by historians and political scientists due to its nationalistic and militaristic nature.

    Note that throughout recent political history the definition of "right-wing" has not been "less government." And the definition of left-wing is not necessarily "more government." That is a false dichotomy that many libertarians have manufactured in order to obscure debate.
    Damn Stillballin, you were right on the mark.
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  9. #79
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    Re: Is Fascism Right Wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by ReformCollege View Post
    Everything you just mentioned are perfect reasons why we need to reduce the government's power.
    How do you get that out of what he said? He said corporations are running the Govt. and your answer it to weaken the govt. further so Corporations can take even more control?
    The Govt. needs to protect us from Corporate greed so all of us can benefit from prosperity. That requires a STRONGER Govt.

  10. #80
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    Re: Is Fascism Right Wing?

    Fascism is historically much closer to plutocracy ( corporatism ) than it is to democracy, making it much more akin to modern republicanism.

    fascism [ˈfćʃɪzəm]
    n (sometimes capital)
    1. (Government, Politics & Diplomacy) any ideology or movement inspired by Italian Fascism, such as German National Socialism; any right-wing nationalist ideology or movement with an authoritarian and hierarchical structure that is fundamentally opposed to democracy and liberalism
    2. (Government, Politics & Diplomacy) any ideology, movement, programme, tendency, etc., that may be characterized as right-wing, chauvinist, authoritarian, etc.
    3. prejudice in relation to the subject specified body fascism
    [from Italian fascismo, from fascio political group, from Latin fascis bundle; see fasces]

    Interesting that the OP made it sound like Fascism was a German invention... That is wrong. It is Italian in origin.

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